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Thread: Can Paleo Stop the Infertility Epidemic? page 8

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grok View Post
    Well, I would do the great Walter Block an injustice if I tried to summarize his educational lecture in a few paragraphs.

    All pollution is caused either directly or indirectly by government. Free market forces are the ultimate regulations on environmental control.

    The biggest insight I got out of the video was when he explained that the only reason why there was a lot of pollution in the industrial age was because the government, which had a monopoly on justice, was not enforcing property rights.
    I can definitely go with this since I am liberal (permissive) economically and socially when it comes to big government. I start to get conservative (non-permissive) when it gets down to the local stuff though.

  2. #72
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    Here is my attempt, let's see how well I retained the information from the video:

    air pollution: private property problem. If private property were actually enforced and justice were not actually a monopoly controlled by guns and violence, then nobody would be allowed to pollute the air.

    paper vs plastic: if you actually had to pay for the disposal of the plastic instead of relying on the government to pick up your trash, then you would be paying a lot more to dispose of plastic bags instead of paper bags (assuming what environmental wackos say is actually true).

    overpopulation: If everyone on the planet had a middle class home with a yard, you could fit the entire population in the state of texas. If you crammed every human being into a cube, the cube would only have to be 1 mile squared. The midwest is virtually unpopulated.

    forests: can't remember what he said.

    running out of resources: If prices are not manipulated by government, then when resources are low, they become expensive, thus less people buy them, and also more people look for more of that resource.

    buying local: this is just common sense, most of what you buy is made 10,000 miles away. Mozart, The Beatles, most really good stuff is not local.

    environmental racism: he talked about how poor people are usually in high polluted areas and the reasons for this is because either companies take advantage of poor people who can't sue them, or else companies homestead some land and the value of the surrounding land becomes lower and thus more affordable for poor people. The former is bad, and the latter is good because you want poor people to be able to afford land.

    I forget exactly what he said about the other stuff. And I'm sure I butchered what he said in the video pretty good because I have a really crappy memory. So you should really just watch the video instead of relying on my poor memory. It's usually pretty difficult to go from learning something to teaching something.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grok View Post
    running out of resources: If prices are not manipulated by government, then when resources are low, they become expensive, thus less people buy them, and also more people look for more of that resource.
    How does that work with water?

  4. #74
    wiltondeportes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grok View Post
    Here is my attempt, let's see how well I retained the information from the video:

    air pollution: private property problem. If private property were actually enforced and justice were not actually a monopoly controlled by guns and violence, then nobody would be allowed to pollute the air.

    paper vs plastic: if you actually had to pay for the disposal of the plastic instead of relying on the government to pick up your trash, then you would be paying a lot more to dispose of plastic bags instead of paper bags (assuming what environmental wackos say is actually true).

    overpopulation: If everyone on the planet had a middle class home with a yard, you could fit the entire population in the state of texas. If you crammed every human being into a cube, the cube would only have to be 1 mile squared. The midwest is virtually unpopulated.

    forests: can't remember what he said.

    running out of resources: If prices are not manipulated by government, then when resources are low, they become expensive, thus less people buy them, and also more people look for more of that resource.

    buying local: this is just common sense, most of what you buy is made 10,000 miles away. Mozart, The Beatles, most really good stuff is not local.

    environmental racism: he talked about how poor people are usually in high polluted areas and the reasons for this is because either companies take advantage of poor people who can't sue them, or else companies homestead some land and the value of the surrounding land becomes lower and thus more affordable for poor people. The former is bad, and the latter is good because you want poor people to be able to afford land.

    I forget exactly what he said about the other stuff. And I'm sure I butchered what he said in the video pretty good because I have a really crappy memory. So you should really just watch the video instead of relying on my poor memory. It's usually pretty difficult to go from learning something to teaching something.
    Thanks, I will watch the video. As for that last part: you only truly learn something when you can teach it. If you can't teach it, you are merely believing in it.

  5. #75
    Grok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackcatbone View Post
    How does that work with water?
    If water becomes very expensive, then more people get into the water business because there is a lot of profit to be made in water. Entrepreneurs then find innovative ways to look for new water, say deep underground, or perhaps from arctic ice, or converting salt water into fresh water.

    Take another example, where fresh water is hard to find in a local area where a disaster has hit, say some hurricane. If the price of fresh water does not sky rocket, then it would mean that the limited amounts of water would go to the people who first buy it instead of the people who most need it.

    The same goes for gas, or anything. If prices are not allowed to freely fluctuate, then the resources will not go to those who most desperately need the resource.

    If hurricane Katrina hits and something happens to you and you need fresh water and gas to get to a hospital to survive, then the only way you can be assured you will get that water is if prices are allowed to go up. If government comes in and tries to control prices, then you end up with shortages. Then the people who most need the resources do not get them.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackcatbone View Post
    How does that work with water?
    Water has a funny way of not disappearing from the Earth...

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidBrennan View Post
    Well, first off, just importing people from another place might then just infect them with the problem.

    Second off, maybe the people in Russia don't want their genes to be eradicated and so they'd want to solve the problem rather than just giving away their land to a different race. (Would somebody say that the people in China should solve their fertility issue by just giving their lands to white men?)

    As far as making the primal diet law, I think that that would be completely un-enforceable. Hell, the government can't even regulate individual substances like alcohol (Prohibition = failure) or marijuana (prohibition = failure), so logically then there's no way in hell they could control all foods and the diets of every individual. That would require insane draconian measures to even attempt, and obviously those attempts would flop, anyway.

    I do think that, as a temporary stopgap, it would be better to have artificial insemination than no children at all. But that, then, leads to the problem of low fertility in women (which exists, as well) and other assorted problems.

    I think the best solution would just be....a solution. Find out where this assault is coming from, and stop it.

    (And, just to be clear, this is NOT just localized to Russia at all. As noted in the article, the phenomenon is global as noted by the W.H.O. in the article, and it's been well documented, to varying degrees, in both the U.S. and Canada, as well.)
    Well, you wanted some possible solutions and I threw out the first few off the top of my head (because that is where I keep them, in a little pink hat, tied with a red ribbon on the top of my head).

    And this:
    I think the best solution would just be....a solution.
    is just priceless.
    Last edited by jojohaligo; 09-13-2012 at 05:51 PM.
    Female, age 51, 5' 9"
    SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

    Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
    2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily Marie View Post
    How many of you dudes carry your phones by your balls?
    ...or don't wear boxers.
    Female, age 51, 5' 9"
    SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

    Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
    2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grok View Post
    overpopulation: If everyone on the planet had a middle class home with a yard, you could fit the entire population in the state of texas. If you crammed every human being into a cube, the cube would only have to be 1 mile squared. The midwest is virtually unpopulated.
    I don't have a whole lot to contribute on your other points, but this one is so obviously oversimplified and not well thought-out that I want to point it out.

    Overpopulation is not about how much physical space the people take up. It's about how many people the world can sustain without degrading quality of life and ecological systems over time, and especially without destroying the future means for providing for a population of the same size.

    Could you supply your every material need, including food, fresh oxygen, clean water, and removal of waste, from a plot of land the size of a middle class single-family home? Of course not; the ecological systems that supply these things for you are vastly big. It takes acres and acres of farmland, watercourses, wetlands, and living, breathing ecosystems to supply the needs and absorb the waste of a single large omnivore like a human, even if you are only considering basic physical needs. Add in all the space and resources we require for recreation, transportation, and constant production of our consumer goods, and the world starts looking a whole lot smaller.

    The fact that the Midwest is sparsely populated by humans is irrelevant, because most of the space is already being used to grow food... for humans. So each additional human being requires development of additional resources, including in areas that are not already full of humans but which supply us with some of our needs and desires. If we started filling that space up with people, then there would be less space to grow the food or mine the metals or whatever for those people.

    I'm not saying that we are beyond our sustainable carrying capacity--although I wouldn't be at all surprised if we were--because that's very hard to know. But this kind of simple response to the question is worse than saying "I don't know"--it gives people who are not approaching the claims carefully a false reason not to concern themselves over a very real issue.
    Today I will: Eat food, not poison. Plan for success, not settle for failure. Live my real life, not a virtual one. Move and grow, not sit and die.

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  10. #80
    Grok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojohaligo View Post
    Yet, another solution would be to get rid of poverty, mandate the primal diet (ie make it a law), and then hopefully there will be more sperm.
    No, violence is never the solution to problems.

    We were doing just great getting rid of poverty until the government came along and declared war against it.

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