Maffetone heart-rate exercise - best way to improve? page 2

[OneDeltaTenTango]

My first MAF run about 6 weeks ago was an ego crusher - faster than a shuffle, more like a very, very easy jog. Everyone was passing me. I have stuck with it pretty well rarely going over the MAF heart rate for my age. In my two benchmark runs a month apart, I actually was slower on the second. Wtf? I definitely agree that the runs are very contemplative now that I am not trying to work myself into a lather.

[twa2w]

Isn't this similiar to what Lance Armstrong did when he was recovering from cancer - lots of LSD (long slow distance). He purported rode his bike very slowly and built up the time he rode rather than the speed. Apparently he rode at a pace that most people can jog at - until he built up to multiple hours - then started adding in some interval or tempo rides.
He seems to have done alright by this :-)

[OneDeltaTenTango]

Isn't this similiar to what Lance Armstrong did when he was recovering from cancer - lots of LSD (long slow distance). He purported rode his bike very slowly and built up the time he rode rather than the speed. Apparently he rode at a pace that most people can jog at - until he built up to multiple hours - then started adding in some interval or tempo rides.
He seems to have done alright by this :-)

Spot on. Too bad the lots of LSD I did in college didn't translate into similar results!

[sbhikes]

My first MAF run about 6 weeks ago was an ego crusher - faster than a shuffle, more like a very, very easy jog. Everyone was passing me. I have stuck with it pretty well rarely going over the MAF heart rate for my age. In my two benchmark runs a month apart, I actually was slower on the second. Wtf? I definitely agree that the runs are very contemplative now that I am not trying to work myself into a lather.

Oh my god talk about an ego crusher. Today three times people made comments to me. Stuff like "Way to go!" "Keep it up!" "Good job!" as if I'm totally new to exercise. It was so embarrassing. I swear I'm not a retard and I'm not brand new to exercise!

[runningout]

Been there done that....

5 years ago when starting running (or do any sports) "first time in my life, at age of 40" there was just one "gear" i.e. one speed and very high heart rate. Training was "just running" first 500 m, then 1 mile, etc.. with the same speed (or higher, progress you know...) and sertainly heavily in anaerobic zone, and being bypassed was not an option....
I did not receive the messages, that I need to run much slower (as I did not get satisfactory why's), until overtraining was apparent... That triggered need to study why should I run so shamely slow...

Maffetone is basically helping to get estimate of aerobic threshold level (intensity, where lactic acid generation & removal are in balance and where fat/sugar burning is "switched" from one to other, (not dead-sharply).
That threshold is sport dependent, as it's "system" and muscle dependant. e.g. cyclist have good aerobic-system, but running muscles are not conditioned same way as cycling muscles.
Below the aerobic threshold body is remowing lactic acid, so if you have done heavy exercise/race,
cool-down-run help the body to recover better, or if you have had stressfull day at the office..same thing

Conditioning the muscles for good aerobic capasity (e.g. to jog on low heart rate, run roadrunner speeds..) needs repetitive low intensity training, which triggers growth of capillary wains to deliver blood to muscle cells. In "rat-tests", low intensity aerobic zone running increases the smallest diameter capillary wains (to deliver oxygen very effectively) where as high intesity increases bigger capillary wains (to deliver more blood, but oxygen less effectively). Also the increase of mitocondria happends better on low intensity.
To my understading, those are the major physical effects which occure e.g. after "LCD's". (there are also chemical changes). And getting them othervise is difficult/impossible.
*
Starting a running hobby should actual start with just walks (as already indicated) and running should come in the bicture gradually in small portions and on flat/downhill sections (for most modern people anyway). But as 99% of people do, it usually start with too big ambitions.

This conditioning, if done patiently, should show results already in 2 months.
Here is old related link, which I found when looking measured progress on fat burning vs. hear rate (or something similar)
Dr. Deyo | Active Metabolic Test | Metabolic Testing | Slow Metabolism | Fast Metabolism Newport Beach | Active Metabolic Rate | Jason Deyo | Resting Metabolism | Nutrition By Dr. Deyo | Newport Beach | :: Dr. Deyo ::

Other major part is the nutrition, so if you plan the train your body for fatburning, don't feed in sugar/catorade/ just before..but this should be obvious here in MDA..

When 4 years ago I could barely reach 150 HR (..coming from above, that is) at the end of downhill section, with very slow jog, I can now do slow jog on flat below 120 heart rate and still have +20 beats/2 MPH left in my aerobic zone. 4 years ago my threshold must have been much lower than to day (i.e. already idea of running was anaerobic)

I've notized, that it's easier to go very slow when I'm just myself on empty road/path or if I run on treadmill, I quess point being "I know nobody sees how slow I go..". Today I have enough confidence to be the slowest runner on the road...

Disclaimer: above is just my interpretations from what I have read, I'm no expert..

Good luck ! running is not the easiest sport.

[sbhikes]

Thank you. I am looking forward to the health benefits. I do a lot of hiking but I really only have one speed for that: full speed ahead. A walk on flats, even a power walk, doesn't get my heart rate up enough. I went for a long "run" yesterday and found enough side streets where I only had one shout out "Way to go!" I wish I was more invisible so people wouldn't provide their commentary. It's quite enjoyable this slow. It's like I can finally sort of do what I was hoping I could do a few years ago after I finished the Pacific Crest Trail. I can just head out my door for a few hours and cover a lot of distance, just choosing my path as I go. I hope someday I can do the hills and run out my door and into the mountains. Just me and my feet and a cup to dip into streams.

[Le0]

Isn't this similiar to what Lance Armstrong did when he was recovering from cancer - lots of LSD (long slow distance). He purported rode his bike very slowly and built up the time he rode rather than the speed. Apparently he rode at a pace that most people can jog at - until he built up to multiple hours - then started adding in some interval or tempo rides.
He seems to have done alright by this :-)

Hi Guys new to this but I totally agree with the above here's Lance base training when he was 28,training below 150bpm.

Game Time Workouts - Pro Athlete Training Routines, Nutrition, Fitness and Exercise Tips: Lance Armstrong's 3-Month Training Program

Here is something else Maffetone thinks about anaerobic training

'Most people don't really need to do anaerobic workouts.Their lives have enough stresses that stimulate the neurological,metabolic,and the muscular systems to satisfy the minimal anaerobic requirements of the body'

Which would probably explain why my basic speed has remained even though all of my runs for the last year has been at 12-14min/mile pace

Leo

[jt38]

I started doing MAF runs on the treadmill last winter and did them fairly consistently for about 3.5 months. While the mileage tracker thing on the treadmill is a little off, my first 2 mile MAF splits were around 17/18 minutes (basically a less than brisk walk with some sloowww jogging). After 3.5 months, my splits on the treadmill were around 12/12.5 minutes. Out on the road this summer, I'm regularly doing runs in my zone at 9.5 min pace. Still a bit of a plodder, but improving. It definitely works if you have the patience to stick with it.

[sbhikes]

Here's an update. I've been doing it for close to 3 weeks now. I'm either experiencing better weather or else I'm actually improving. I was able to run almost all the way up a few small hills without setting the beeping off. I was able to run under my max in a manner you can consider jogging, not shuffling. I could also run like this breathing through my nose. So I am definitely improving. I feel really good, too. It is giving me more energy overall. I think this has been a really good thing for me. I'm glad I have found it.

[Sigi]

SB, this is really interesting. Would you recommend The Big Book of Health and Fitness (seems to be Maffetone's latest release) as a comprehensive-enough reference for anyone considering this protocol? (My God, that man has written so many books!)