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  1. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    My surgery got delayed, by 2 pm I was so lethargic that I don't think they needed valium to sedate me, really. I ended up with about 550 cals on the day of surgery, and then I ate it all back yesterday when the appetite kicked back yesterday evening as I recovered. I and I barely walked both days, spend the whole day yesterday slow moving around the house & a bit on the street, and napping. As a result I am 1.5 lbs heavier this morning from Wednesday morning. Fasting for weight loss = not efficient for me. I am too voracious, I suppose. Well, back to the gym and no fasting today.
    You're not supposed to do anything but slow moving and napping after surgery! Go easy on yourself (at least for the sake of the gaping holes in your mouth that are trying to heal!)

    These day-to-day comparisons don't help you. Wouldn't you tell anybody else not to do this?

    But I do hope the mouth is feelin' good! When I had that operation I drank a ton of cauliflower soup (just boiled in chicken stock and whiz whiz whiz, with a dash of nutmeg. The best)

  2. #412
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    You know, NZ Gwamma, maybe the morning fast isn't for you. I'm new to fasting, but when I'm not, I always ate breakfast. A small one (because I couldn't eat a large meal that early, my stomach was just unhappy if I did). I kind of fall in between camps. There are people who fast until noon (nope, I got hungry), and then there are the huge meal eaters! Nope not for me either, when I try to eat a ton in one sitting, it sits in my stomach making me feel uncomfortable for hours. So I pretty much have stuck with 3 small meals and a snack or two.

    UNTIL that is I started upping my fats. I was eating about a 60 fat/30 protein/ 10 carb ratio and then I just ate three smaller meals, and felt really good. Then I found the Eat MOAR Fat thread and upped my fats even further.... So try dropping the protein down 10 and upping your fats. See how that makes you feel... I lost on average 6 pounds a month like this over a two month period.

    We all are kind of figuring things out ourselves, wish there was one mold fits all, but unfortunately there isn't.

    FASTING: Okay, so I realized yesterday that my math was completely off! lol This morning marks my 2 1/2 day point. I feel good this morning. Eating some fats while doing this modified fast has tremendously helped!

    On a side note, thank goodness I'd seriously detoxed three times before (aka month-long attempts to go Primal and change my gut flora). And that for the most part my gut has been doing okay over the past several months, otherwise THIS WOULD BE H E double hockey stick!

    I have some kombucha in my fridge left-over from the last time I tried to drink some, I thought I'd take a swig of it yesterday (realized later I should avoid it because of the sugar, yet I can't make myself pour it out...) Then I had some krautsalat and I took my probiotic as usual. And I took a swig of Olive Oil since it was a fat, and it's supposed to kill those H. Pylori beasts.

    Incorporating these types of natural fermentation are normal for my diet. But WOW! When you're fasting and your body basically doesn't have anything in it, and the bad bacteria are dying anyway, and then you sock it to them by eating/drinking anti-bad bacteria things!! WOW, does it make for some uncomfortable brain fog and die off. Not so fun. Not fun at all...

    Felt really good last night, didn't eat anything for dinner (well, some salt water) and then this morning I haven't eaten yet, but I feel good. No hunger pangs. I do have a slight headache, but I dry-brushed last night and I think that might have stirred up some things in the lymph system.

    Okay, I'm heading off now to try a HIIT session. We'll see how it goes! Am 50/50 as to if I'll eat something afterwards. The Peak 8 clips I've watched say that you need to eat 20 g of protein afterwards. But I'm fasting, so I have some salami standing by. If I feel okay, then I'm not going to eat anything. If I feel yucky, then I'll eat the salami and go back to fasting business as usual. (I chose salami because of the high fat content...)
    Last edited by lissee; 10-05-2012 at 10:18 PM.

  3. #413
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    Lissee - thanks for the info. I am certainly gonna try adjusting a few things, just to see how, what, why - Isn't life just one big experiment ????

    and just curious - what is MCT oil ????

    G
    "never let the truth get in the way of a good story "

    ...small steps....

  4. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by lissee View Post
    Incorporating these types of natural fermentation are normal for my diet. But WOW! When you're fasting and your body basically doesn't have anything in it, and the bad bacteria are dying anyway, and then you sock it to them by eating/drinking anti-bad bacteria things!! WOW, does it make for some uncomfortable brain fog and die off. Not so fun. Not fun at all...
    I havent had any bad experience but maybe I wasnt at it long enough? I am reading my PHD now, and on the page now where he talks about all the goodness of Ketogenic IF - eating as much CO, heavy cream, fiber, and fermented veggies as you want on your fasting day. It kills bacteria, viruses, and cancer cells.

    I know that is all what we have talked about already just neat to read it for myself.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

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  5. #415
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    Hey guys, anybody have any tips for fighting that "urge to eat" which isn't truly hunger? It seems to come up when I get bored or stressed.

    Also, I've found that lately if I try an extended fast, say 2 or 3 days, I get really hungry. And on my normal IF days with my 1 meal, it doesn't seem like I'm losing. Feels kinda like I'm stuck?

  6. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by NZ primal Gwamma View Post
    Lissee - thanks for the info. I am certainly gonna try adjusting a few things, just to see how, what, why - Isn't life just one big experiment ????

    and just curious - what is MCT oil ????

    G
    Hi Gwamma, So true! So true! That's what makes life interesting. Okay, so my understanding (which could be missing some things...) is that MCT oil is a type of coconut oil that is processed. Some are better than others. The good types purport to use mostly 2 types of fatty acid chains that are supposed to kickstart your keto-fat-burning processes.

    People like the BulletProof Executive claim that when fasting (and perhaps other times) the MCT oil can boost your fat burning capacity up 12%. I'm not a huge believer in hype, and underlying the 90% hype over at the BP site, there are nuggets of truth. I'm undecided on the MCT oil, but have decided to give it a try... that is when it finally arrives in the mail.


    Quote Originally Posted by gopintos View Post
    I havent had any bad experience but maybe I wasnt at it long enough? I am reading my PHD now, and on the page now where he talks about all the goodness of Ketogenic IF - eating as much CO, heavy cream, fiber, and fermented veggies as you want on your fasting day. It kills bacteria, viruses, and cancer cells.

    I know that is all what we have talked about already just neat to read it for myself.
    That is really cool! Okay so what is the PHD? I think it sounds like a book I should read!

    As for the probiotics... everyone's mileage will vary. I was on strong antibiotics twice yearly in my teens and college years. (Dr.s kept trying to treat my asthma like it was bronchitis.) So my gut micro flora wasn't so hot to begin with, then I went to Haiti, and the antimalarial I chose was Doxycyclene. (Didn't realize at the time what a bad decision that was.) So for over a year, I took it daily, for the most part. (And ate a horrible diet, food was interesting & stressful.)

    Last year when I left Haiti I was a mess physically (and mentally/spiritually), and one of the things my Dr. said was that I had severe gut dysbiosis, and a yeast antibody reaction which indicated a huge candida overgrowth. So I'm thinking that maybe you are just in better health than I am, and that's maybe why you lucked out on the bad experience while fasting.

    For me, I think even though I've been at this for a very long time now, and been pretty low carb now for 3 months, that my gut flora still had/has some changing to do. (Wow, how's that for a ramble! lol)


    Quote Originally Posted by cheffy View Post
    Hey guys, anybody have any tips for fighting that "urge to eat" which isn't truly hunger? It seems to come up when I get bored or stressed.

    Also, I've found that lately if I try an extended fast, say 2 or 3 days, I get really hungry. And on my normal IF days with my 1 meal, it doesn't seem like I'm losing. Feels kinda like I'm stuck?
    Hi Cheffy, when I get that urge to eat, brain signal, I've found that "choosing" something else to think about helps. I don't say distract, or ignore, or run away from, because in my experience, that just leads to anxiety and feelings of deprivation. Actually spinning yourself up, instead of mellowing out. Choosing something else to focus on or do, is a mindful way of being proactive. I find that when I'm truly feeling stomach hunger that it usually only lasts 5-15 minutes. When I'm feeling head hunger, it's anxiety & stress, and it helps me to focus in on why I'm feeling stressed, or if I know why, to then focus on something else. Like a t.v. show or a good book.

    Out of curiosity, are you water fasting or doing a modified fast with fats? For both types, if you really are getting really hungry on day 2-3, then it sounds like you aren't really reaching ketosis. If you're not trying to go for keto eating, then before your fast, I've read that it helps to prep for a fast by cutting down on sugar/starchy things (like to zero) and then upping your fats to get your body ready for the switch. YMWV
    Last edited by lissee; 10-07-2012 at 01:16 AM.

  7. #417
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    Forgot to mention this morning's day 3 1/2 for me on my fast. I've been feeling really good, and am hoping for some really good results from autophagy, so I'm contemplating going longer... I'm hoping that autophagy has started even though I've been eating fats & kraut on my fast.

    The high intensity interval training went well yesterday. Of note, my heart rate didn't recover like it usually does in between sprints. I ended up skipping my 7th sprint and then going all out for the 8th. (I do Peak 8.)

    More interestingly, I dropped 3 lbs between yesterday and today. I know it was the exercise that made the difference. We'll see if the loss holds tomorrow or if it was just water and will come back.

    Oh, and in case you were wondering, no, I didn't end up eating the salami after exercising. I had coconut oil and a little bacon grease instead. I didn't want to risk having an insulin reaction from the butter. (If you eat any carbs or sugar within 2 hours after High Intensity Interval Training, then it immediately stops the release of all that human growth hormone...)
    Last edited by lissee; 10-07-2012 at 01:42 AM.

  8. #418
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    Oh My GOSH! It tastes soooo good!

    Buttered Chicken Broth. (Alternative to BulletProof Coffee)

    Chicken Broth
    Butter
    Chipotle sauce (yes it's really not that primal)

    = WOW, heavenly goodness!

  9. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by lissee View Post
    That is really cool! Okay so what is the PHD? I think it sounds like a book I should read!
    The Perfect Health Diet. He is the fella that I first heard of suggesting fermented veggies while fasting. Well, via another site at Critical Mas. He is a paleo/primal fella and normally advocates 65% fat. However for weight loss, he says to cut the fat. And my n=1 over the past 10 months has been telling me the same, I was just afraid to, as everyone says you need to eat more fat. The higher I raised the fat, the slower my weight loss. So, what did I do? yes I kept raising it. I could fast and take it off, but then it would come back. So in September, I was just under a 2lb weight loss.

    So.... PHD dude says eat LESS fat to lose weight. (I have proved that I can maintain and do well on higher fat, so I will go back when I get the fat off) I have also increased the carbs via tators. This is just starting day 4, and I havent weighed yet, but my first 3 days was 2.9lbs lost. I am anxious to see what the scale says here in a few hours (I do better weighing after 7) I am anxious because yesterday I had a tator fast (feast) Just like I use to in the good ole days, back when I was young and strong, lost weight and lifting daily. (different parts) But I was afraid to eat tators because of the carbs, and so I havent. I have to say, it really felt good to increase my carbs. Not SAD crazy increase. My fat is about 30-40% (except yesterday's tator feast) and my carbs were still under 150 net.

    I lost most of my weight pre-primal. 10lbs month on about 30% fat. Net carbs 150 - 200. All good carbs. No junk - Breads, sweets, pastas have long been gone. No sweet tea, no cups of sugar w/a little bit of coffee, no soda pop. I was having legumes because I heard they were good for me. OH, I would have a wheat bread once in a great while because I heard they were good for me also. But homemade breads and white flours were gone.

    Then I went primal and upped the fat, weight loss slowed. The higher I upped, the slower it got.

    Here is part of my post on the tator thread. Very distinct pattern

    I was losing 10lbs per month at about 30-40% fat.

    Then I started to research more - thought I could fine tune - learning about good fats, low carbs, etc.

    So since Mid-March:
    Then I went to 50-60% fat - losing 4-5lbs per month
    Then I went to 60-70% fat - losing 3-4lbs per month
    Then I read, you need to eat MORE fat so I went to 70%+ and just under 2lbs lost last month.
    Even MORE fat at 75-80%, I gained but fasting took it back off.

    Low Net Carbs the entire time. Some days 15 - 20, some days 50. Few 70 now and then but rare.
    Everyone kept saying, give it time. And I think I have. About 7 months of primal. That was a good n=1. So I am still eating primal, just changing my macros around. Once I get the weight off, I will change it back to more fat.

    Anyways, I am reading PHD book now. I am digging it. I can understand it. It makes sense to me and it is a good fit with PB. I had read his blog before, even this part about lowering fat, but I wasn't receiving and processing new information at that time. However once I really looked at my tracking, and seeing my pattern, it was pretty obvious what I needed to do. And I think I have known for awhile, I was just afraid to, afraid to lose ground, and so my fasting helped me make up lost ground.

    So anyways, I think I am on the right track now for me, for weight loss. That is my goal at the moment. I am relatively healthy otherwise, that I know of. And I thought I wouldnt be able to fast with less fat and more carbs, but I think I still can. I have a good grip on my hunger. Even after only have tators yesterday, I didnt start eating until lunch at noon. I get hungry, but I am not ready to chew my arm off or anything, not like I was before when I first started my journey coming off of SAD.

    Okay, early morning babble again. Sorry. I really should journal, so not to bore everyone. Or maybe I should just go back to bed.... ha. But I read my book for about 11 hours yesterday (with normal distractions) and can't wait to get back to it!
    Last edited by gopintos; 10-07-2012 at 03:20 AM.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

    Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

  10. #420
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    Interesting, I'll check out the book. I've really hit a stride in weight loss now with a weekly 48 hr fast. During the rest of the week I stick to a diet to keep me continuously in Ketosis. I keep track of my macros and it works out to 25-50 gr. Carbs, 75-100 gr. protein and the rest in fat. Typically this works out to fat as being 60-75% of my total calories on any given day.

    I've been doing this for a month now and have been consistently losing 3 pound a week. If you cut down fat what do you replace it with? Too many carbs and you are out of Ketosis. Too much protein and the balance that you don't need is turned to glucose and can throw you out of Ketosis, at least that's my understanding. If you don't replace the fat, you just lower your calorie count in total and hunger and down regulation of your metabolism is the result, (it seems to me) so weight loss will slow.

    Having tried all of the above I've settled on what I am doing now. Once I get to my goal weight, I'll still eat 2000 calories a day (unless I become a good bit more active), I'll up the carbs to 100 - 150 from healthy sources and trim the fat accordingly.
    Height: 5' 10"
    Starting Weight: 292
    Starting Primal Weight: 275
    Current weight: 230
    Goal weight: 172
    Body Fat 27.5

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