Fasting Challenge Next Week page 30

[gopintos]

Antioxidants block cell repair

So I went Link Hopping from that link, and landed on this

Trehalose, autophagy, and brain repair: Sweet

[Paleobird]

Yes there were some interesting hops from that one article.

But anytime the subject of fasting comes up, well meaning people always caution you to be sure to take your vitamins. Well, maybe not. Then there is the question of if ANY antioxidants including things like green tea could be a problem on a fast or if it is just supplements.

[cheffy]

WARNING
The below statement is kinda gross



Anyway,
This was my first major fast, and when I ate, (just gonna be blunt), I had diarrhea. It wasn't the bad kind of diarrhea where my stomach hurt, my stomach was very active.

So anyway, is this normal for a fast? I do daily 16-24 hour fasts, and lately I've noticed this has been happening as well. Just wondering if anybody else experiences this. If this isn't normal, any ideas what it could be? Thank for any info and please excuse the nastiness haha

[gmatt]

I finished my latest fast earlier today. 82 hours in total, so i am pleased. This longer one was much easier than last week's 60 h fast. Dropped 5 lbs in that time. I will probably aim for a 3.5 day fast once a month, along with a limited daily feeding window. Overall , it has been a great experience, and it saves a lot of money

[Sabine]

Cheffy- you didn't mention what you had eaten. I think that both primal eating and fasting can make your system more sensitive to the things that irritate it. You get a rest, and then if you eat something that disagrees with you (for whatever reason), your body is able to jump right on it.
When I go off eating primally, I am always dismayed by how yucky I feel, and amazed that I used to feel this way all the time, but it was my 'normal', so I didn't even realize until I had a feeling of good health to compare it to.
You might want to chart what you are eating and see if it is an ingredient that is bothering you.

[KerryK]

OK, I *have* to chime in here to thank everyone for this fascinating, fascinating thread! I've been interested in autophagy & fasting for a while now, and this thread is fabulous. I've never been able to fast before and am in day 2.5 of a 3.5 fast.
I wish I could post some questions, but to be honest I keep writing them and erasing them. Ah well, maybe another time. So suffice it to say that I'm getting a lot of good 'food for thought' here (HA!)

This article came up on the antioxidant thread but could be very relevant to us fasters as well.

Antioxidants block cell repair

The gist of it is that antioxidants block autophagy. Everyone takes them to block cell damage they also seem to block the removal and disposal of dead cells, autophagy. Those of us who take supplements might want to consider suspending them during a fast.

Interesting article with some more links about autophagy to explore.

Very interesting, indeed! Ties in with what I've been hearing. For those that take supplements, I've often read that one should take a break every so often anyway... either a day or two a week or a week every month or two. And many supplements are really only supposed to be taken for a few months, but many folk don't realize that.

Interesting read. Links too. Thanks for that.

I suspended Vit C & all other antioxidants a year ago this month, after a trusted friend/supplement formulator told me that there were reliable studies showing they weren't good for you in certain/many ways. I dabbled on & off w/ vit C, E & Alpha Lipoic Acid for some years. I do eat chlorella, whey & other super foods, high in certain antioxidants & vitamins. Foods vs pills & powders.

For those of us who do not eat a lot of calories, even when what we do eat is as high a quality as possible, I wonder though if certain supplements aren't beneficial if taken, say, 4-5 days a week. Especially if one has not yet reached an optimal level of health. You might not be able to share the studies if they're private, but I'm really interested in reading about the findings that convinced you, if you're able to point me in the right direction...

[Paleobird]

I don't take supplements at all. I do eat and drink some things meant to help supply extra concentrations of nutrients such as liver, bone marrow and broth, wheatgrass juice, acai berry puree (not the dried stuff in a capsule, the real berries), mineral water, etc. But i consider these to be a part of my diet , not supplements.

I really think a lot of people screw themselves up when they supplement, trying to correct a deficit (real or read about on the internet) in one vitamin or mineral, they take a megadose of which can be toxic or also can disturb the balance between several areas. We really don't know enough yet about the interactions between all these things to go messing around like this.

When the nutrition comes packaged for the body to use in foods and drinks, it is just about impossible to mess things up. The absorption occurs along with digestion, gradually, instead of all in one encapsulated plop.

The only time I feel supplementation has any benefit is when a real deficit has actually been diagnosed in a particular thing. Not just the latest supplement craze of the month on the blogs.

[gopintos]

I don't take supplements at all.

I know I over do it. If I hear something might be good, I order it. CoQ10, Garlic, Apple Cider Vinegar, Apple Pectin....

I was watching carbs so not eating fruit - or much, so I thought things like apple pectin, blueberries, etc would be beneficial.

I also take the main ones I hear about, like fish oil, magnesium, probiatics, sea kelp, daily multi-vit., etc. Mostly because I don't know how much I am getting in my food, so I didnt want to take any chances. I dont take as many on fast days, because they need to be taken with food.

I spend about 50 - $100 a month. It would be nice to stop or cut back but I don't know which ones.

[cheffy]

Cheffy- you didn't mention what you had eaten. I think that both primal eating and fasting can make your system more sensitive to the things that irritate it. You get a rest, and then if you eat something that disagrees with you (for whatever reason), your body is able to jump right on it.
When I go off eating primally, I am always dismayed by how yucky I feel, and amazed that I used to feel this way all the time, but it was my 'normal', so I didn't even realize until I had a feeling of good health to compare it to.
You might want to chart what you are eating and see if it is an ingredient that is bothering you.

Both times I at salad greens and meat, which is somewhat typical of my daily meal. I'll have to do a little experimenting and see if only certain foods cause it. Sounds pretty obvious but I never even thought of it haha, thanks Sabine!

[Paleobird]

I know I over do it. If I hear something might be good, I order it. CoQ10, Garlic, Apple Cider Vinegar, Apple Pectin....

I was watching carbs so not eating fruit - or much, so I thought things like apple pectin, blueberries, etc would be beneficial.

I also take the main ones I hear about, like fish oil, magnesium, probiatics, sea kelp, daily multi-vit., etc. Mostly because I don't know how much I am getting in my food, so I didnt want to take any chances. I dont take as many on fast days, because they need to be taken with food.

I spend about 50 - $100 a month. It would be nice to stop or cut back but I don't know which ones.

Spend that money on some good quality foods. Like buy the grass fed instead of the CAFO and buy the free range eggs. If you make bone broth, eat offal and regular meat, eat some good leafy veggies like kale and spinach, eat some fish (tastier than a fish oil capsule) and some good fats, you are going to have more vitamins and minerals in your system than you need. All those pills are just making expensive pee.