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  1. #171
    Betorq's Avatar
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    Primal Fuel
    @magicmerl,

    ...stuffing oneself w/ bananas and whipped cream will cure ANYTHING!

    The cold hands & feet syndrome, in my own limited experience, can be addressed w/ a 1-2-3 punch of magnesium, cayenne & niacin. THAT will warm you up & get things circulating
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
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  2. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piscator View Post
    You're not going to be able to do 48 tomorrow, no matter how strong your intention.
    That sounds like another challenge. I am sure you are probably correct, but I am wondering why that is. When I posted that yesterday, the rest of what I was thinking, was that it would depend on what I find on the scale this morning - my motivation.

    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    The result: I haven't been feeling hot at night and my hands feel colder during the day.
    I normally run hot at night, well more like short bursts of hottness. I didnt notice it so much the last two nights. And I slept in until 6!! Normally I am up between 4 - 5.

    The first day of my fast, I got cold and went outside for just a bit. It didnt really register until afterwards that it was diet related. I did take some magnesium later in the day.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

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  3. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piscator View Post
    it would depend on what I find on the scale this morning
    drum roll..... 2.2lbs. Okay so nothing earth shattering, but I will take it! It's only Wednesday!
    65lbs gone and counting!!

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  4. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopintos View Post
    ty ty tyvm
    yes a new record for me. 48 hours and 30 minutes! ha
    I am thinking of going again tomorrow. at least a 24 but maybe a 48 again.
    The Health Benefits of Water Fasting by Stephen Harrod Buhner

    Written 2003
    Copyright 2003 Stephen Harrod Buhner

    Fasting is an exceptionally ancient, and powerful, approach to healing many common disease conditions. It allows the body to rest, detoxify, and to heal. During fasting the body moves into the same kind of detoxification cycle that it normally enters during sleep. It uses its energy during a fast, not for digesting food, but for cleansing the body of accumulated toxins and healing any parts of it that are ill. As a fast progresses the body consumes everything that it can that is not essential to bodily functioning. This includes bacteria, viruses, fibroid tumors, waste products in the blood, any build up around the joints, and stored fat. The historical record indicates that human beings are evolutionarily designed to fast. It is an incredibly safe approach to healing and the body knows how to do it very well.

    The Physiological Changes of Fasting

    Many of the most dramatic changes that occur in the body during fasting take place on the first three days of the fast. These occur as the body switches from one fuel source to another. Normally, the primary form of energy the body uses for energy is glucose, a type of sugar. Most of this is extracted or converted from the food we eat. Throughout the day, the liver stores excess sugar in a special form called glycogen that it can call on as energy levels fall between meals. There is enough of this sugar source for 8-12 hours of energy and usually, it is completely exhausted within the first 24 hours of fasting. (However, once the body shifts over to ketosis or fat as fuel, this new fuel is used to also restore the body's glycogen reserves.)

    Once the liver's stores of glycogen are gone, the body begins to shift over to what is called ketosis or ketone production - the use of fatty acids as fuel instead of glucose. This shift generally begins on the second day of fasting and completed by the third. In this interim period there is no glucose available and energy from fat conversion is insufficient but the body still needs fuel. So it accesses glucose from two sources. It first converts glycerol, available in the body's fat stores, to glucose but this is still insufficient. So it makes the rest that it needs from catabolizing, or breaking down, the amino acids in muscle tissue, using them in the liver for gluconeogenesis, or the making of glucose. Between 60 and 84 grams of protein are used on this second day, 2-3 ounces of muscle tissue. By the third day ketone production is sufficient to provide nearly all the energy the body needs and the body's protein begins to be strongly conserved. The body still needs a tiny amount of glucose for some functions, however, so a very small amount of protein, 18-24 grams, is still catabolized to supply it - from 1/2 to 1 ounce of muscle tissue per day. Over a 30 day water fast a person generally loses a maximum of 1-2 pounds of muscle mass. This conservation of the body's protein is an evolutionary development that exists to protect muscle tissue and vital organs from damage during periods of insufficient food availability.

    From the third day onward the rate of the breakdown of fatty acids from adipose or fat tissue continues to increase, hitting its peak on the tenth day. This seven day period, after the body has shifted completely over to ketosis, is where the maximum breakdown of fat tissue occurs. As part of protein conservation, the body also begins seeking out all non-body-protein sources of fuel: nonessential cellular masses such as fibroid tumors and degenerative tissues, bacteria, viruses, or any other compounds in the body that can be used for fuel. This is part of the reason that fasting produces the kind of health effects it does. Also, during this period of heightened ketosis the body is in a similar state as the one that occurs during sleep - a rest and detoxification cycle. It begins to focus on the removal of toxins from the body and the healing and regeneration of damaged tissues and organs.

    Fasting and Healing

    Fasting has been found to help a number of disease conditions, often permanently. There have been a number of intriguing clinical trials and studies treating numerous disease conditions with fasting.

    Here are some of those findings.

    * In one clinical trial of hypertension and fasting, 174 people with hypertension were prefasted for 2-3 days by eating only fruits and vegetables. They then participated in a 10-11 day water only fast, followed by a 6-7 day post fast in which they ate only a low-fat, low- sodium vegan diet. Initial blood pressure in the participants was either in excess of 140 millimeters of mercury (mm HG) systolic or 90 diastolic or both. Ninety percent of the participants achieved blood pressure less than 140/90 by the end of the trial. The higher their initial blood pressure the more their readings dropped. The average drop for all participants was 37/13. Those with stage 3 hypertension (over 180/110) had an average reduction of 60/17. All those taking blood pressure medication prior to fasting were able to discontinue it. Fasting has been shown in a number of trials like this one to be one of the most effective methods for lowering blood pressure and normalizing cardiovascular function. Blood pressure tends to remain low in all those using fasting for cardiovascular disease once fasting is completed.

    * Fasting is exceptionally beneficial in chronic cardiovascular disease and congestive heart failure, reducing triglycerides, atheromas, total cholesterol, and increasing HDL levels.

    * Fasting has been found effective in the treatment of type II diabetes, often reversing the condition permanently.

    * Because of its long term effects on metabolism, fat stores in the body, leptin, and disease conditions associated with obesity, fasting has been found to be one of the most effective treatments for obesity.

    * A number of studies have found that fasting is beneficial in epilepsy, reducing the length, number, and severity of seizures. Fasting is especially effective for helping alleviate or cure childhood epilepsy.

    * In a 1988 trial of 88 people with acute pancreatitis, fasting was found better than any other medical intervention. Neither nasogastric suction or cimetidine were found to produce as beneficial effects as those from fasting. Symptoms were relieved irrespective of the etiology of the disease.

    * A number of studies have found that fasting is effective for treating both osteoarthritis and rheumatoid arthritis. Fasting induces significant antiinflammatory actions in the body and researchers found decreased ESR, arthralgia, pain, stiffness, and need for medication.

    * Autoimmune diseases such as lupus, rosacea, chronic urticaria, and acute glomerulonephritis have all responded well to fasting.

    * Severe toxic contamination has been shown to be significantly helped with fasting. Clinical trials have found that people poisoned with PCB experienced "dramatic" relief after 7-10 day fasts.

    * Poor immune function improves during fasting. Studies have found that
    there is increased macrophage activity, increased cell-mediated immunity,
    decreased complement factors, decreased antigen-antibody complexes, increased immunoglobulin levels, increased neutrophil bactericidal activity, depressed lymphocyte blastogenesis, heightened monocyte killing and bactericidal function, and enhanced natural killer cell activity.

    * Other diseases that have responded to fasting are: psychosomatic disease, neurogenic bladder, psoriasis, eczema, thrombophlebitis, varicose ulcers, fibromyalgia, neurocirculatory disease, irritable bowel syndrome, inflammatory bowel disease, bronchial asthma, lumbago, depression, neurosis, schizophrenia, duodenal ulcers, uterine fibroids, intestinal parasites, gout, allergies, hay fever, hives, multiple sclerosis, and insomnia.

    * The historically lengthy claim that fasting increases life span is beginning to garner some support in research literature. Regularly repeated 4-day fasting has been found to increase the life span in normal and immunocompromised mice.

    * Although the use of fasting in the treatment of cancer is controversial, there is some emerging data SHOWING that fasting helps prevent cancer. Intermittent fasting (2 days weekly) has shown an inhibitory effect on the development of liver cancer in rats.
    Last edited by Betorq; 09-05-2012 at 05:45 AM.
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  5. #175
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    People Who Should Not Fast
    Although most people can fast, there are a few who, because of special conditions, should not.

    * People who are extremely emaciated or in a state of starvation
    * Those who are anorexic or bulemic
    * Pregnant, diabetic women
    * Nursing mothers
    * Those who have severe anemia
    * Those with an extreme fear of fasting
    * Those with porphyria. Porphyria refers to a genetic metabolic defect that affects the body's ability to manage porphyrins. Porphyrins are a group of compounds that combine with iron to produce blood, are involved in the control of electron transport systems, and, within mitochondria, are intricately involved in the production, accumulation, and utilization of energy. Porphyria can cause malfunctions in the liver, bone marrow, and red blood cells and produces a wide range of symptoms including seizures.

    * People with a rare, genetic, fatty acid deficiency which prevents THE INITIATION OF KETOSIS. This is a deficiency involving the enzyme acetyl-CoA, a mitochondrial fatty acid oxidation enzyme, that is essential to ketosis. Those with this deficiency who do fast can experience severe side effects, including hepatic steatosis, myocardial lipid accumulation, and severe hypoglycemia.

    A Note on Pregnancy, Children, and Fasting
    Although many fasting texts suggest that pregnant women not fast, those that have been found to suffer side effects were also diabetic. Ketosis during pregnancy can seriously harm the fetus if the mother is diabetic. Fasting during pregnancy if a woman is not diabetic has not been found harmful to either mother or fetus. However, fasts for nondiabetic pregnant women should be no longer than 2-3 weeks duration and be monitored by a health care provider. Children, even infants, can also fast without complications if the fasts are of relatively short duration. For infants 2-3 days, children 1-2 weeks depending on age. These fasts should also be monitored by a health care provider unless of short duration. The need for infants and young children to fast is rare.

    Those Who Should Fast Under Health Care Supervision
    While most people can fast safely there are some that should do so only under the supervision of a health professional experienced in fasting for healing.

    * Those with serious disease conditions
    * Pregnant women
    * Infants and young children
    * Type I diabetics
    * Those with insufficient kidney function
    * Those who are extremely afraid of fasting yet wish to do so anyway
    * People with a high toxic contamination level of DDT. DDT is stored by the body in a highly concentrated form in fat tissue. Fasting can release huge levels of DDT into the bloodstream as the fat stores are released. This can be quite dangerous.

    (Betorq's edit: I recall recently reading online about a group of factory workers in Vietnam who fasted in response to their DDT poisoning, it was painful & took a number of weeks but they all recovered.)
    Last edited by Betorq; 09-05-2012 at 05:40 AM.
    "Science is not belief but the will to find out." ~ Anonymous
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  6. #176
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    Ok, so if you are already in ketosis, or close, you get a jump on the 1st 3 days and go pretty much straight to the benefits of the 3rd day onward, right? So it sounds like a 7 day fast is what I should shoot for provided I start out in ketosis. I am just babbling now.

    I did supplement with a little BCAA, in an effort to spare muscle loss. I dont know if it was needed for a 48 hour fast, but I probably was already in or close to ketosis so according to that article, it would have been taking from muscle tissue. Except that I was not doing a water fast, I was modified and I had some bone broth which would have provided some of that protein, right? (looks like 4g per cup)

    I had bought the BCAA because I wanted to try the protocol outlined in BPdude's rapid fat loss. Fast for 5 or 6 days, then re-feed and then back at it again.

    I had been thinking about this since April but never able to actually do it. Summer was too crazy anyways, but I think that all these shorter fasts - Fast5 most daily, 24, then 36, now 48, has been helping me to get my mind where it needs to be. I think it has been helping to get my body prepared as far as ketosis goes, and as far as starting the healing and removing toxins, etc so that when/if I do a 5 or 6 or 7 day, it should be a fairly pleasant experience.

    The article is talking about water fasts. Maybe if I can do a modified longer one, I can then wrap my brain around a more absolute fast. If the benefits are the same or close, I am okay with the modified. The one thing that did jump out at me, is if I am giving my body proteins, it may not be "looking" for the extra proteins in the way of tumors or whatever, so it might not be the same internal housecleaning as a water fast?

    As part of protein conservation, the body also begins seeking out all non-body-protein sources of fuel: nonessential cellular masses such as fibroid tumors and degenerative tissues, bacteria, viruses, or any other compounds in the body that can be used for fuel.
    The other thing that jumped out at me, was
    Between 60 and 84 grams of protein are used on this second day
    So this takes me back to Paleobird's thread, and trying to determine just how much protein I need per day. I have days that are lower, but I also have days that are higher. So that is confirmation of where my range needs to be.

    Clarification needed:
    Intermittent fasting (2 days weekly) has shown an inhibitory effect on the development of liver cancer in rats.
    I guess that means that 2 days is an IF? I guess it is. I think of IF as anything less than 24 because 24 seemed out of my reach haha. I guess when you compare to a 30 day fast, it is all IF, huh? So I guess a good short term goal is to try to do a 48 hour fast weekly? I can do that. I don't have any trouble with the 24s and now I dont think I will have any trouble with the 48s now. Well, modified anyways with a goal of building towards fewer hacks at least periodically.

    Ok, done babbling now.
    Last edited by gopintos; 09-05-2012 at 06:39 AM.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

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  7. #177
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    Particularly interesting is the section that notes where the body goes for protein during that first week: tumors, etc. Seems like an extended fast might be a good seasonal task to perform to 'sweep out' anything that is trying to set up house inside of your body. Intriguing. Thanks for the article, Betorq.

  8. #178
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    I finished my fast earlier today. It was my longest ever at 60 hours - twice as long as my previous record. I must say, although it wasn't particularly enjoyable, it was pretty easy to do and I will be doing more in the future. I lost about 3 or 4 pounds over that time. Next time I want to try for 84 hours as Dr. Longo recommended in the Horizon BBC documentary.

  9. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmatt View Post
    I finished my fast earlier today. It was my longest ever at 60 hours - twice as long as my previous record. I must say, although it wasn't particularly enjoyable, it was pretty easy to do and I will be doing more in the future. I lost about 3 or 4 pounds over that time. Next time I want to try for 84 hours as Dr. Longo recommended in the Horizon BBC documentary.
    WTG! I need to watch that. I have the world's slowest high-speed internet so I don't watch many videos like that.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

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  10. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopintos View Post
    That sounds like another challenge. I am sure you are probably correct, but I am wondering why that is. When I posted that yesterday, the rest of what I was thinking, was that it would depend on what I find on the scale this morning - my motivation.

    He just meant that you can't do a 48 hr. fast in one day!
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