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  1. #21
    Moochy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukey View Post
    This is getting a bit off topic guys, i'm not talking about fruit i'm talking about sucrose. I know that mark sisson and robb wolf say it's bad for you, and it wasn't available for us to eat regularly, but WHY is it bad. It's just glucose and fructose
    Now I am sure you never read Sisson's or Wolf's books...why do you want to consume sugar and continually spike your insulin level? Sugar has zero nutritive value. We want to eat foods that are nutritionally dense. The last thing a diabetic or prediabetic (nearly 30% of the US population depending on where you get your numbers) wants to put in their mouth is sugar.

    Mark says your goal is to be a fat burner, not a sugar burner. If you eat sugar, ( as the majority of people in this world do every day of their lives) you will always be a sugar burner as the body will preferentially burn sugar.

    Are you just trolling here?
    Last edited by Moochy; 08-30-2012 at 05:19 PM.
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  2. #22
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    Yes but the only unhealthy thing you said there was the weight gain, which isn't the concern. Gaining weight is unhealthy regardless if it comes from eating too much fat or too much sugar. It still doesn't make sense for dietitions to say sugar causes heart disease, diabetes etc.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moochy View Post
    Now I am sure you never read Sisson's or Wolf's books...why do you want to consume sugar and continually spike your insulin level?

    Are you just trolling here?
    Are you kidding? I don't want to consume sugar, if you actually bothered to read my first post i said i never eat sucrose? And sugar doesn't spike insulin any more than most other carbohydrates do, it has a gi of 64. I have been following marks daily apple for over a year so please have the decency to read my posts and not call me a troll.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forgotmylastusername View Post
    And no offense to zoe harcombe but she's pretty much a nutty zero-carb zealot. She even blames the obesity crisis on fruit. lol
    Pretty sure that is one of them there ad hominizer attacks that you logical folk use . And I'm pretty sure the "I meant no offense disclaimer" doesn't carry much weight either.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukey View Post
    Are you kidding? I don't want to consume sugar, if you actually bothered to read my first post i said i never eat sucrose? And sugar doesn't spike insulin any more than most other carbohydrates do, it has a gi of 64. I have been following marks daily apple for over a year so please have the decency to read my posts and not call me a troll.
    So what's wrong with my earlier post? The sweetness seems, in nature, to be a signal that the fruit is ripe and now has the maximum content of vitamins and minerals it ever will have. The refined product lacks those vitamins and minerals. We pay for that.

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    Theres nothing wrong with your post it's a good point. But it still doesn't explain why sugar is "unhealthy". Sure eating fruit is healthier because it of the vitamins and minerals is healthier, but that doesn't mean not eating them is unhealthy. Sugar doesn't have those minerals and vitamins, but that doesn't explain why it is bad for you. You can still get those minerals from somewhere else.
    Last edited by Lukey; 08-30-2012 at 12:48 PM.

  7. #27
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    Plus, if the refining process itself carries any weight with you (if you like to consider what you eat "whole foods") then there is this:

    "Sugarcane (Saccharum spp.) is a perennial grass in the family Poaceae. It is cultivated in tropical and sub-tropical regions for the sucrose that is found in its stems. It requires a frost-free climate with sufficient rainfall during the growing season to make full use of the plant's great growth potential. The crop is harvested mechanically or by hand, chopped into lengths and conveyed rapidly to the processing plant. Here it is either milled and the juice extracted with water or the sugar is extracted by diffusion. The juice is then clarified with lime and heated to kill enzymes. The resulting thin syrup is concentrated in a series of evaporators after which further water is removed by evaporation in vacuum containers. The resulting supersaturated solution is seeded with sugar crystals and the sugar crystallizes out, is separated from the fluid and dried. Molasses is a by-product of the process and the fibre from the stems, known as bagasse, is burned to provide energy for the sugar extraction process. The crystals of raw sugar have a sticky brown coating and can either be used as they are or can be bleached by sulphur dioxide or treated in a carbonation process to produce a whiter product."

    Then this:

    "Cane sugar requires further processing to provide the free-flowing white table sugar required by the consumer. The sugar may be transported in bulk to the country where it will be used and the refining process often takes place there. The first stage is known as affination and involves immersing the sugar crystals in a concentrated syrup which softens and removes the sticky brown coating without dissolving them. The crystals are then separated from the liquor and dissolved in water. The resulting syrup is either treated by a carbonation or a phosphatation process. Both involve the precipitation of a fine solid in the syrup and when this is filtered out, a lot of the impurities are removed at the same time. Removal of colour is achieved by either using a granular activated carbon or an ion-exchange resin. The sugar syrup is concentrated by boiling and then cooled and seeded with sugar crystals causing the sugar to crystallize out. The liquor is spun in a centrifuge and the white crystals are dried in hot air, ready to be packaged or used. The surplus liquor is made into refiners' molasses.[41] The International Commission for Uniform Methods of Sugar Analysis sets standards for the measurement of the purity of refined sugar, known as ICUMSA numbers; lower numbers indicate a higher level of purity in the refined sugar."

  8. #28
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    Read Mark's post today about Cholesterol (part 2), pay attention to item 10. After reading it, draw your own conclusions what effect sugar has on health...
    "The problem with quoting someone on the Internet is, you never know if it's legit" - Abraham Lincoln

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukey View Post
    This is getting a bit off topic guys, i'm not talking about fruit i'm talking about sucrose. I know that mark sisson and robb wolf say it's bad for you, and it wasn't available for us to eat regularly, but WHY is it bad. It's just glucose and fructose
    Did you check out any of the links I posted? If not you should see Sugar the Bitter Truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dirlot View Post
    An interesting read Cut the Sugar - How to Build Muscle | Strength Training Workouts | Mass Gain Diet what is particularly interesting if accurate is the sugar consumption 100 years ago was about 4lbs per year now on average it is about 150lbs per year. In that kind of quantity it is definitely not good

    A good watch as well Sugar the Bitter Truth Sugar: The Bitter Truth - YouTube and I have heard that Pure, White and Deadly is a good read and years ahead of its time.
    Eating primal is not a diet, it is a way of life.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukey View Post
    Theres nothing wrong with your post it's a good point. But it still doesn't explain why sugar is "unhealthy". Sure eating fruit is healthier because it of the vitamins and minerals is healthier, but that doesn't mean not eating them is unhealthy. Sugar doesn't have those minerals and vitamins, but that doesn't explain why it is bad for you. You can still get those minerals from somewhere else.
    ... if you do. But fair enough. I get your point.

    But there's what Neckhammer just wrote. Do you really want to put something in your mouth that's been through all that?

    And as if all that weren't bad enough for you, what about the ecological impact? If you refine something down like that it keeps; it has a good shelf life. And this, as people like Weston Price and Vilhjalmur Stefansson pointed out long ago, means something that will keep without spoiling and can be traded over long distances, but that seems to wreak havoc on people's health wherever it goes. if you didn't know the mechanism for that and didn't understand why, well it still does. See Weston Price (passim):

    Weston Price: Nutrition and Physical Degeneration; Table of Contents

    Seriously. If you read that, if will blow your mind.

    I said "ecologocal imapct". I forget the figure now, but I think Dr. Cate has said it takes 100 pounds of water to make one pound of sugar:

    Deep Nutrition: Why Your Genes Need Traditional Food: 1: Amazon.co.uk: Catherine Shanahan MD, Luke Shanahan: Books

    That's not sustainable.

    Then there's Dr. Lustig's point. That's that all that sugar hitting your bloodstream fast overwhelms your system. There's no precedent for it in biological systems. If you eat the fruit, all the stuff that comes with the sugar slows its absorption down. That's the fibre, basically. Take that out, and it's getting into your bloodstream that much faster. Rocket-fuel. There's just no precedent in nature for that.
    Last edited by Lewis; 08-30-2012 at 01:21 PM. Reason: spelling

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