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Thread: ketogenic diet for kidney disfunction/gout page

  1. #1
    archaeologyboy's Avatar
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    Question ketogenic diet for kidney disfunction/gout

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    Hi,

    I've been having some issues with minor gout (once last year and twice this year), I was confused by this because I don't think my lifestyle is very gouty (even pre-primal, and certainly not now), but now I have a theory that I'd like to run by this forum to see if people who know more than me concur and/or have any suggestions.

    First some numbers:
    Health check nov 2009 (pre-primal): Blood uric acid - 7.3 - high

    Health check jun 2012 (6months primal): Blood uric acid - 9.2 very high!

    Hospital 2 weeks later with gout symptoms: Blood uric acid - 9.4 even higher
    + Blood urea nitrogen 28.3 very high!
    & Creatinine 1.26 high (see my body stats in the signature below)

    Reading this:
    Clearing up Kidney Confusion: Part Deux

    it seems that my blood numbers indicate kidney disfunction.

    Until yesterday I was stumped for a cause for my kidney numbers and gout because I lived pretty CW healthy even before PB (not much beer, plenty of fresh veg, no soda - going PB all I did really was cut rice, grains, vegetable oils and occasional potato chips) , but reading about sleep in that articule gave me a brainwave: for about 6 years (ending about a year ago) I was overworked and overstressed and went thru multiple phases of sleeping really badly off-and-on for weeks at a time - until finally I cracked last May (2011), drastically reduced my workload, and spent A LOT of time in structured reflection (that bit is ongoing).

    I've got my stress under control now (in retrospect a lot of it was self-generated) and mostly sleep really well (the only exception being after LHT - I posted about this on the fitness subforum), but still have bad kidney bloodwork. So here's my theory:

    1. chronic bad sleep and stress messed up my kidney function
    2. my kidneys haven't been able to recover because I was still eating too much protein (see the robb wolf article) -
    going PB in Dec I started stronglifts 5x5 - eating LOADS of protein (even eating 95% primal I got 3kg fatter as well as extra muscle, though I've now lost that extrafat)

    So, according to Robb I need to do a ketogenic diet for a while - low protein (10-15% protein) low carb ( less than 10%) high fat (esp coconut) - to allow my kidneys to recover. I'm planning on doing it for a month then retesting bloodwork.

    Does that sound about right? Can anyone offer any further suggestions or spy any flaws in my reasoning? Biochemistry REALLY isn't my field so I'd like some reassurance I'm heading in the right direction.

    Thanks for anything anyone can offer
    Me: 39, 5'11", primal since Dec 2011, always been active (surfing, martial arts) but no athlete.
    Currently: bw 78kg (17ish% fat?), Squat 102.5kgx5 , Bench 67.5kgx5, Deadlift 115kgx5 (July 2013)

    If less is more is more even more?

  2. #2
    Neckhammer's Avatar
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    Sounds like you have yourself a plan. Good luck! Let us know how it comes along.

  3. #3
    archaeologyboy's Avatar
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    Ok, thanks for the reassurance! I'll be sure to post back with the results.

    One question - how important is it to weigh and measure my food? I'm finding myself reluctant to get into that level of micromanagement. I don't think I'll overeat (I stop when starting to feel full, I hate feeling stuffed and bloated), and I already did the newbie "think so long as it's primal I can gorge myself" mistake (that's how I gained fat on the 5x5) so I'm hoping this will be ok without measuring:

    Breakfast - nothing (been doing this for a month or so and I love it)
    Lunch - scrambled egg with loads of butter and olive oil, bit of fatty meat or fish with it (lunch is fairly light for me)
    Dinner - stir fry of fatty meat and non-starchy veg (lots of leafy ones, few carrots or peppers) absolutely dripping in oil - olive, coconut, lard - eat until I am comfortably full.
    No snacks - except maybe a bit of cheese.

    Plus I'm taking a multivitamin&mineral supplement and cod liver oil so I shouldn't go deficient in anything vital.

    Does that look about right? Again thanks for any input, advice or reasssurance, primal newbie here!
    Me: 39, 5'11", primal since Dec 2011, always been active (surfing, martial arts) but no athlete.
    Currently: bw 78kg (17ish% fat?), Squat 102.5kgx5 , Bench 67.5kgx5, Deadlift 115kgx5 (July 2013)

    If less is more is more even more?

  4. #4
    Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by archaeologyboy View Post
    One question - how important is it to weigh and measure my food? I'm finding myself reluctant to get into that level of micromanagement.
    Not that important. You might input what you eat into an online tool, such as fit day, for a couple of days, or even a week to get a feel for quantities.

    The carbohydrate's not difficult to get a handle on. The figure of 10 to 15% protein is fairly straightforward: it's about what's in the standard diet and equates to a moderate serving of a protein-rich food with every meal. What might be deceiving is the fat.
    It's not particularly difficult to get up to about 65% fat, but with a true ketogenic diet you'd be more likely in the region of 75% upwards, and you begin to need to get to a style of eating that doesn't really look at all like what most people eat.

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    archaeologyboy's Avatar
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    Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    you begin to need to get to a style of eating that doesn't really look at all like what most people eat.
    Can you give me an idea of what it does look like? Some kind of image would be helpful, at the moment one of the problems I'm having is imagining the meal - my image of "stir-fry dripping with oil" is about as close as I can get.

    My scrambled eggs today were laden in butter and olive oil, and other than the counter-CW-intuitiveness of eating food that fatty tasted GOOD, so that's a good start.
    Me: 39, 5'11", primal since Dec 2011, always been active (surfing, martial arts) but no athlete.
    Currently: bw 78kg (17ish% fat?), Squat 102.5kgx5 , Bench 67.5kgx5, Deadlift 115kgx5 (July 2013)

    If less is more is more even more?

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    archaeologyboy's Avatar
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    Got a funny fruity (but quite pleasant) taste in my mouth today and yesterday - I gather this probably means I'm in ketosis.
    Me: 39, 5'11", primal since Dec 2011, always been active (surfing, martial arts) but no athlete.
    Currently: bw 78kg (17ish% fat?), Squat 102.5kgx5 , Bench 67.5kgx5, Deadlift 115kgx5 (July 2013)

    If less is more is more even more?

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    archaeologyboy's Avatar
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    the results!

    Back with an update:

    did 5 and a bit weeks of ketosis. I never did calculate my macros but I was erring so far on the side of caution I figured I was safe: I was basically living on stir-fried leaves with a bit of meat and loads of (mostly coconut) oil (also lard, olive oil and butter) and topped with a couple of eggs. Also I had a clear fruity taste in my mouth for a while which is I gather an indication of ketosis.

    The numbers:
    (in june,with symptoms of gout -> after keto diet finished)
    (on reflection I should probably have done a complete test THEN started the keto diet - hindsight!)

    Cholesterol:
    Overall cholesterol: 249 -> 288
    HDL: 79 -> 65
    LDL: 148 -> 194
    ratio of LDL/HDL: 1.8 -> 2.9
    So cholesterol went in the wrong directions, HDL went down and LDL went up. Too many eggs? Or is the cholesterol/ heart disease link a dead duck by now?

    Uric Acid
    9.4 -> 7.6
    still a bit high but much better, this is the one we were looking to see improve

    triglycerides
    44 -> 73
    erm, seem to have gone up, but still within safe limits

    Blood sugar
    83 -> 87

    Bodyweight
    77kg -> 72kg
    that's good then!

    Overall, some things seem to have gotten a bit worse but my uric acid is much better than it was, though still a bit on the high side.

    What to do now? I guess I'll eat normally for a while (primal normal, not normal normal) and continue to eat plenty of fat with my modest meat and plenty of veg, tho' I'll probably start eating a variety of veg now (not just leaves) and generally slacken the reins (I got a bit fed up with this by the end) whilst still remaining broadly primal. I think I'll steer clear of fruit, alcohol and anything else clearly sugary for a while tho and see how it goes.

    Anyone anything to add?
    Me: 39, 5'11", primal since Dec 2011, always been active (surfing, martial arts) but no athlete.
    Currently: bw 78kg (17ish% fat?), Squat 102.5kgx5 , Bench 67.5kgx5, Deadlift 115kgx5 (July 2013)

    If less is more is more even more?

  8. #8
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    Cholesterol seems to be less than reliable when you are losing weight. Most recommend that you are stable for at least a few months before having it checked.

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    archaeologyboy's Avatar
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    Ah, I've read that somewhere (possibly in PB) - losing bodyfat is releasing cholesterol into your bloodstream. I'd forgotten about that tho - thanks for mentioning it.

    My weight loss seems to have plateaued in the last couple of weeks, but other than the fact that I can't see my abs I'm pretty content with it - people have been telling me I look fit! So I guess I'll let it sit where it is and see my cholesterol next time I test.

    thanks again, I'm much reassured on that point!
    Me: 39, 5'11", primal since Dec 2011, always been active (surfing, martial arts) but no athlete.
    Currently: bw 78kg (17ish% fat?), Squat 102.5kgx5 , Bench 67.5kgx5, Deadlift 115kgx5 (July 2013)

    If less is more is more even more?

  10. #10
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    Hi,
    I also suffer from gout,
    It's what works for you and being able to eliminate what foods give you a gout attack and what foods reduce the pain

    My pain in my toe is there all the time, but by having plenty of vit C (2000mg if you take supplements) helps flush out the uric acid. Along with drinking plenty of water.
    I also found that by having a Mediterranean diet, which was high in olives and olive oil, the pain in my toe from arthritis/gout was all most gone, due to it's anti-inflammatory properties. Makes you wounder why after visiting my Doctor 10 years ago with blood test results I brought back from my travels in Bolivia showing high uric acid level, my Doctor said "was nothing to worry about" and many visits since with pain in my toe, back and chest. I was never given information or talked with a nutritionist, but given a prescription for a big box of strong ibuprofen or Naprosyn tablets on every visit!

    A high in take of good quality cold pressed virgin olive oil, helps the best. I am still working out omega 3 - 6 ratio, but if I eat nuts, avocado, hazel nut butter, almond milk or anything that is high in omega 6, I pour lots on olive oil on.

    I also Drink Ginger tea as it is a natural anti inflammation, along with lemon grass, cinnamon and mint.

    I also did not sleep well and took time off work and to travel Spain in a campervan, I was sleeping very well and this helped a lot.

    Have days off eating meat.
    Foods that are high in purines should be avoided. In purine foods uric acid is found in high amount. Meat products like internal organs, kidneys, liver, heart and other parts of animals. To keep the uric acid levels low these foods must be avoided.

    From the body alcohol interferes with the removal of uric acid. Particularly, consumption of beer has also been associated to gout attacks. It should be avoided if a person having gout attack.

    Try eating little and often, so you don't have a spike in insulin and eat low carb, and the carbs you do eat, have them last after the meal.

    Also read interview of Dr Richard Johnson; involves research and, for a number of years, he has been studying the effects of fructose on the metabolic system. Dr. Richard Johnson And His Research on Food Ingredients
    Last edited by CycleTechUK; 01-01-2014 at 05:25 AM.

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