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Thread: EAT MOAR FAT! I'm finally GETTING it. page 9

  1. #81
    Leida's Avatar
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    I had kind of the same feelings. I tried doing a CKD (Cyclical Ketogenic Diet) bot found it hard to keep on schedule. I'm working on a seasonal plan now. In winter, I go full-blown ketogenic, mainly meat, fat, fish, fermented veggies, chocolate and some nuts. As summer progresses I add in leafy greens, then fruit--as much as I can eat. Right now, I'm transitioning away from leafy greens and melons to fall fruit/veg like apples, pears, and cabbage. Next month or so those will be gone in favor of potatoes and nuts. I started this in January last year and it has worked like a charm. All the overeating on melon, berries, bananas, sweet corn, etc... didn't cause any weight gain. I think out guts flourish on a seasonally varied diet and like the change. Plus, this is a life-long endeavor for me--I have about 50 years left to perfect it.
    I was thinking about doing something like that, but as soon as I add fruit, my sugar destabilizes, I start binging on it, appetite sky-rockets, and I gain weight like crazy. I am really better off without fruit physically. Mentally - crap. Maybe I will try 1/2 cup a day AND no carb-up.

    Cyclic Ketonic put me in near faint state both times I tried it, both times 2 month in. Not sure why.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
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  2. #82
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    Sigh.
    All this is very well and good for those of you who like fat.

    While I do eat more of it than before, I still trim my meat (even bacon sometimes if there's a huge wad of it). I just don't like the mouth feel of fat at all. Coconut is gross. Avocados...well maybe I can choke down 2 bites. Guac I can handle...sometimes. Butter is ok, but there's only so much I can take. The mere thought of eating marrow or liver makes me cringe. I guess my fat=ew switch is on full.
    5' 9" 44 YO F
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  3. #83
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    If it's any consolation, I used to hate fat. The texture, the idea, etc. Luckily for me, it was a learned dislike. My parents had taught me it was bad, and once I learned otherwise I was able to rehab my taste buds. At first it was just nuts and avocado and fish. Slowly I added in cooking oils, and fatty steaks and bacon, and today I could probably scarf down a jiggling mound of most any (most, not just ANY) fat. I still can't stand a bare spoonful of coconut oil.


    Turquoisepassion:
    Knifegill is christened to be high carb now!
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    the buttstuff...never interested.
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  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by June68 View Post
    Sigh.
    All this is very well and good for those of you who like fat.
    I dont like fat just for fat on it's own necessarily. And that is the trouble that I have with adding fat, is that when I add fat, it is almost always attached to or in conjunction with something, like protein, and sometimes carbs but usually protein. uugggh And I love protein. double ugghh
    65lbs gone and counting!!

    Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

  5. #85
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    June, I am very much in the same boat. I gradually learned to increase fat intake over the 2 years. Pork and bacon... I still can't stand it on most occasions. So I just don't eat it.

    Salmon, on another hand is my weapon of choice. I can eat salmon by the pound. I make salmon head soup, and eat the fatty parts from the head.

    I won't eat avocado on its own, but I put a quarter of it in a green smoothie/gazpacho. Then I just taste light creaminess not the overwhelming fat content.

    There is one recipe I like with butter, and that's brown butter zucchini with some nut thrown in and on wild mushrooms.

    I also found that I love dry roasted chicken, while other types of cooking chicken in skin make me gag. Dry roasted, crispy skin with no added fat is pretty palatable.

    I always loved liver, but I do not interpret it as fatty, not sure why.

    With coconut, chilled milk, I got used to it, and chopped creamed coconut tastes like candy to me now that no sweet flavors are allowed. Salt on coconut oil makes it palatable. And, well, hunger is a good spice too. I now use coconut oil to miss lunches. Very good for figuring out if you are really hungry or not.

    Luckily, I have never had problems with cheese, but it will take some trying to eat full-fat quark instead of skim milk quark, not sure I can take it.
    Last edited by Leida; 08-29-2012 at 12:51 PM.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
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  6. #86
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    Two hour (!) interview of Steve Phinney by .... Jimmy 85% fat Moore:

    23: Long-Term Stalls & Weight Gain Even On A Well-Formulated Low-Carb Diet | Dr. Stephen Phinney | Jimmy Moore Presents: Ask The Low-Carb Experts

    I guess it would be relevant to this thread.

    It's got some interesting stuff in it. Jimmy apparently says that it is his favourite interview out of all the ones he's done.

    Steve Phinney, AFAIK, has been in ketosis for seven years now. Says he can cycle for hours on it.

    It's interesting how a lot of people at this site kind of bridge the paleo and low-carb worlds. I guess Mark does to some extent, too. I think what paleo and what people like Steve Phinney are doing don't quite mesh, although they are very similar in many ways -- and both are interested in ancestral diets. (c.f., for example, Dr. Jay Wortman's interest in traditional First Nations diets.)

    The "safe starches" thing can be put on one side -- inasmuch as while it upsets a lot of people in the paleosphere, it's going against "official paleo" anyway. But official paleo is still fairly high-fruit friendly and is high rather than moderate protein. Professor Cordain's figures on protein suggest anything up to about 30% of total calories as protein (and up to 40% carbs). (That's based on calculations and estimates based on reported animal and plant food ratios in the diets of contemporary hunter-gatherers.)

    It's interesting that in that podcast a lot of callers have experimented with paleo, and are doing relatively high protein, and Phinney's first advice to them is to cut that back.

    But there are a of different things in there. Jimmy Moore made a list of bullet points as "takeaways" for people and there were over two hundred of them.
    Last edited by Lewis; 08-29-2012 at 12:51 PM. Reason: spelling

  7. #87
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    Wow, I feel fantastic. I really did turn the corner. It took about two weeks. It's almost noon and I haven't had my breakfast yet. Just coffee with cream and some bone broth. I feel energetic, laser-focused, strong as an ox and I'm thinking I might go running and have my breakfast after that.

    Seriously why on earth did I ever listen to all that "eat more potatoes" nonsense?? It totally took away all the amazing stuff I got when I first went down this whole paleo path. And like a frog in a pot of boiling water, I didn't even notice it happening.

    My only complaint is that I wish I could find a way to be more carb-agnostic and keep this great super-low-carb feeling because a) it's so easy to fall out of this and b) so hard to get back.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    I can squat 180lbs, press 72.5lbs and deadlift 185lbs

  8. #88
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    Yes, Marks' recent post about insulin resistance calms my mind about staying keto. If all my micronutrient needs are being met, and I feel great, and my thyroid is happy, etc., I have no reason to need sweet potatoes. Though I do know it helps my abs pop out. Maybe the glycogen load actually makes muscles bigger? Health over looking good, though. I'd rather feel good than look like a carved statue and feel dizzy.


    Turquoisepassion:
    Knifegill is christened to be high carb now!
    notontherug:
    the buttstuff...never interested.
    He gives me Lamprey Kisses in the midnight sea
    Flubby tubby gums latching onto me
    For all that I've done wrong, I mastodon something right...

    My pony picture thread http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82786.html

  9. #89
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    i sort of miss sweet potato fries, but not enough to jeopardize my steady weight loss
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  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by patski View Post
    I get most of my fat from coconut oil, as I don't have a gallbladder.
    This makes you a very special snowflake and I don't presume to know what to tell you other than "talk to your doctor".

    Quote Originally Posted by relaygirl View Post
    But the fat has cleared out my urges to binge. It has been a huge release for me. I feel so much better. Upping fat a ton, backing way off on protein, keeping my carbs mostly to veggies. I lost 10 lbs and not lost muscle as I have before when I do straight calorie restriction with keeping up mostly protein.

    I cross fit and run (not a good combo, I know). And I am adapting to the running on more fat but my crossfit has gotten a lot better. Running-I am a half marathoner and I was having trouble the last 4 miles of races in the past month but the last race I did I could tell I was doing a lot better. It was a big adjustment going from a SAD to paleo and now from paleo to tons of fat in running.

    I also have no gall bladder so it has been a gradual adjustment-I take super enzymes everytime I eat.
    That's great. And see, there is a highly athletic person living well on HF/LC. Don't give me this "I'm an athlete. I need my carbs" stuff. And Patski, here is another un-gall bladdered person. Swap tips perhaps?

    Quote Originally Posted by oxide View Post
    Of course it's both!!! We've been hypothesizing toward this for a couple months now. It's a two step process:
    1. Turn from sugar-burner to fat-burner. Now your body can "see" the fat.
    2. Cut down the amount of fat and food you eat so that you have a FAT deficit. Only then will your body burn the excess fat that you're carrying around.

    I think that one of the faults(?) of Primal is that it sort of glosses over the calorie question by assuming that our bodies will "tell us" when we're full. If you let Grok loose in a modern Safeway, he'd be obese within a year.
    Sometimes we get too busy fighting each other to realize that Both is better than Either/Or.

    Quote Originally Posted by not on the rug View Post
    i worked for a few years running a program for children with disabilities and had several children who attended the program who were on ketogenic diets in order to help treat their seizure disorders. i also saw a tremendous amount of progressive parents who used gluten-free casein-free diets and saw drastic improvements in their children with autism. interesting stuff...
    Interesting. It's really working for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    On another topic, hey Paleobird, do you struggle with salt? I have never salted my food much but when I eat low carb I really have to make sure I get enough salt or I really feel lousy. It can be quite a struggle not to forget, and making bone broth all the time can be a royal pain, especially in summer. It helps so much though. Ever since I started having a cup of (fat-free) bone broth before work, I start the day right and feel great. Trying to add salt after I already started feeling crappy isn't as effective, and salt on my food isn't as effective as broth anyway.
    Very good point. Ketosis does make your body flush out (literally) all that extra water your tissues have been holding but along with it, a lot of minerals can get flushed. You need to stay hydrated and keep enough salt in you. I find I crave salty stuff when my body needs it. Once you have been in ketosis for a while however, this stabilizes out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    I also experienced the difference while hiking with friends recently. I was not particularly hungry until our lunch stop, while others were pooing gels and sport drinks along the way. My jerky, an orange, and a Larabar made a good lunch, and later on a palter of powdered coconut water mixed into one of my bottles for some electrolytes. I was running mainly on fat stores and did well.
    Yes, I like having a lighter pack to carry.

    Quote Originally Posted by relaygirl View Post
    Is the fullness switch Leptin? I often have the satiety switch just flick on too now. NEVER have I had that. Increasing the fats with IF has really pushed out my trigger foods.
    See Owly's answer below.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trojan View Post
    Paleobird;I HEAR you loud and clear. Bought some grass fed butter today and will add in eggs/avacados/CO. My plight has been a body building mindset for years and it tough to retrain the brain. I always think in terms of high protein, low fat and carbs. I'll switch it up but finding the correct ratio will be an adventure in itself.
    Meeting with my trainer tonight to discuss and ketosis plan.
    B
    Hi Barbara. This is the person who inspired this thread, BTW. Good. Tell your trainer to read The Eating Academy site.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    I think it's a combination of hormones and psychological training. There are a number of hormones that signal satiety, and I think they need to be working together optimally to get that instant off switch, plus you have to be in a healthier emotional relationship with food so you can accept the fullness signal and just stop without feeling obligated to clear your plate.
    Exactly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawyerchick12 View Post
    This is what I sadly learned recently. And what a sweet spot it is to be in when u finally figure it out
    Yes!!! It feels freaking fantastic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Finnegans Wake View Post
    Great thread, Paleobird.
    It just needs some... iodine.
    Noooooooooooooo..........! Get away from me with that paint brush! Back!

    Quote Originally Posted by quelsen View Post
    i tend to be a fat and meat kind of guy. all but the staple veg puts my scale up overnight.
    I am one that says eat moar fat, but i eat so little carb anyway. I agree that is is lazy conversation to simply say eat more fat.
    And it's obviously working for you, Honey Badger.

    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Here's my go-to fat bomb: Take a whole can of coconut milk, the kind that has a thick, creamy consistency. Mix it up really good and put in a bowl in fridge overnight to get it really thick. When you are ready to eat it, put 3-4 big scoops of unsweetened cocoa powder in and mix well. It's like a chocolate, fat blast with about 500 calories. Sometimes this is my whole meal.
    Oh, yumm. Must try that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    I am very inspired by that statement. I am trying to evolve towards eating more fat and low carb/less protein, but in the past I kept running into the fruit depression.

    That produces a mood curve, with unstable mood/appetite after the carb-up. When I stick to fats, protein and veggies, my appetite just normalizes, I experience what I have never experienced before, 'I am full, no more food' sensation, my breaks between meals go longer effortlessly. I like all that.

    I am actually not against trying to keep up my fitness regimen without carb-ups, and never leaving the ketonic state despite teh recommendations to the opposite (because so far they got me nowhere & frankly I do not have competitive aspirations!) but I am wondering if anyone who achieved long-term continuous ketosis had the persistent fruit and starch depression issues and how they handle fruit withdrawal long-term? Particularly now with the apples ripening and the smell of fresh apples alone could drive me to the brink of suicide if I don't get any?
    See below.

    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    I had kind of the same feelings. I tried doing a CKD (Cyclical Ketogenic Diet) bot found it hard to keep on schedule. I'm working on a seasonal plan now.
    Interesting idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawyerchick12 View Post
    where can I buy the Manna?? Does wholefoods sell it?? what aisle should I be looking at? I really want to try it
    Dunno about whole paycheck. I get mine at Netrition.com It's the Nutiva brand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    Alright, I'm on board. The main barrier for me is protein. I really, really feel better the more I eat. Here's today's meal:
    2 cups avocado
    12 ounces salmon
    8 eggs
    1 cup coconut milk in my coffee
    Cooked eggs and fish in approx. 1 tbsp of butter, coconut oil, and tallow.

    Comes out to 2,459 calories
    199.2g fat
    41.6g carb
    141g protein
    One thing Peter at the Hyperlypid site does is use just one full egg and the rest just the yolks. Kind of a turnaround from year s of CW egg white omelets huh? Most of the protein is in the white but all the fatty goodness, and most of the nutrition is in the yolk.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    I was thinking about doing something like that, but as soon as I add fruit, my sugar destabilizes, I start binging on it, appetite sky-rockets, and I gain weight like crazy. I am really better off without fruit physically. Mentally - crap. Maybe I will try 1/2 cup a day AND no carb-up. Cyclic Ketonic put me in near faint state both times I tried it, both times 2 month in. Not sure why.
    Sounds like you need to really commit to a complete extraction of your sweet tooth by staying in keto for at least three weeks solid.

    Quote Originally Posted by June68 View Post
    Sigh. All this is very well and good for those of you who like fat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    If it's any consolation, I used to hate fat. The texture, the idea, etc. Luckily for me, it was a learned dislike. My parents had taught me it was bad, and once I learned otherwise I was able to rehab my taste buds.
    Me too.

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