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Thread: EAT MOAR FAT! I'm finally GETTING it. page 7

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Ketosis can be measured by Ketostix which are a urine test strip. These are fairly accurate when you are transitioning to ketosis but, over time as your body becomes more adept at using the ketones for fuel, there are not as many being processed out which can lead to the test strips not being worth much. There are also blood test meters made for people with diabetes that measure both blood glucose and ketones. Those are more accurate.
    Other indicators that you don't need need pee or blood to get results are just about how you feel.

    This is from the MDA post about "What does it mean to be fat adapted?"



    Personally, I just *know* when I'm in ketosis because I feel like I could go out and spear a wooly mammoth. When I do sprints fasted and in ketosis, I just feel like I am slicing through the air, like it is getting out of the way to let me through.

    Once you have experienced it, you will know it again.
    I remember this post that Mark wrote and I'm sure in the 2 years I've been primal I've had to have been in ketosis some of the time as I do base my diet on protein, fat and veggies, but I'm sure I have overdone the protein and have been cutting back on my meat portions. I lost 20 lbs in the first 6 months and have lost another 5 lbs in the last year and a half. I've had a few periods of eating too much ice cream, dried fruit/nut balls, cheese, etc. so I can't call it a stall. I'm so happy eating this way it doesn't matter, but now I would like to try to lose another 15 lbs and maybe some of them are vanity, but I'm short and think my weight is more than what it should be. Anyways, what really stuck out in your initial post is being in that in between stage of being low carb, but not ketosis, and feeling kind of like crap. I think that is where I am ...like something is just a little off... I should have more energy than this. I have the Volek / Phinney book The Art and Science of Low Carb Living and just haven't had a chance to read it yet, but am going to start now! Thanks for starting this thread and for your response.

  2. #62
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    Of course it's both!!! We've been hypothesizing toward this for a couple months now. It's a two step process:

    1. Turn from sugar-burner to fat-burner. Now your body can "see" the fat.
    2. Cut down the amount of fat and food you eat so that you have a FAT deficit. Only then will your body burn the excess fat that you're carrying around.

    Mark has always been a skinny minnie. If you can rip your eyes away from the 8-pack abs, you can see the skinny bone structure in his legs. We just aren't all built that way. Blasting through 2500 calories may work for him. I get by on about half that.

    I think that one of the faults(?) of Primal is that it sort of glosses over the calorie question by assuming that our bodies will "tell us" when we're full. As if our bodies know exactly how many calories we need and stops us from eating more after we get exactly that amount of calories? Even from an evolution standpoint this is unlikely. Grok still WANTS to be fat, to guard against days when there is a famine. He could afford to gorge on honey and blueberries because (1) he ran out of honey and blueberries fast (2) there actaully WAS famine, on a seasonal basis.

    If you let Grok loose in a modern Safeway, he'd be obese within a year.

    Jim Henson, you are still wrong. For months you've been espousing that ONLY CICO matters. It is not ONLY CICO.
    5'0" female, 43 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Current weight: skinny-fat 106.5 lbs because of sugar cheating.

    MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post

    I have been researching ketosis from the epilepsy perspective and there is medical evidence there all the way back to the ancient Greeks. First they noticed that prolonged fasting caused a decrease in and even sometimes a cure of seizures. Ketosis is a way to achieve the benefits of fasting while still eating well.

    Until anti-seizure drugs were invented, ketosis was pretty much the only therapy for epilepsy.
    i worked for a few years running a program for children with disabilities and had several children who attended the program who were on ketogenic diets in order to help treat their seizure disorders. i also saw a tremendous amount of progressive parents who used gluten-free casein-free diets and saw drastic improvements in their children with autism. interesting stuff...

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owly View Post
    Cori, I can see it happening rather easily. A bulletproof coffee in the morning (especially if one does not measure the quantity of butter added), a generous portion of HWC with your berries, cooking your greens in a couple of spoons of bacon fat and not draining any off, maybe more butter on your vegetables, coconut milk in a green smoothie--it's easy to add a lot of fat without realizing it. People don't tend to eyeball quantities well, and very few people bother to properly measure their fats.
    I think that's the issue that PB is addressing. Anyone fully adapted to a ketogenic or very low carb diet isn't having a bulletproof coffee with breakfast, a big bowl of cream and berries, a coconut milk green smoothie yadda yadda all on the same day. They typically tend to naturally gravitate toward one or two meals a day.

    The whole bulletproof coffee thing, with the large amount of butter, is supposed to be a meal replacement and the ingredients, the specific combo of special fats and caffeine, are supposed to rev up certain body processes. It's not supposed to accompany a meal. But people just can't stop leaping to "more fat = bulletproof coffee." It doesn't mean that!

    Back when I was adapted and losing my weight, I ate only breakfast and dinner and wandered around in a daze all day wondering what you are supposed to do with yourself if you aren't constantly thinking about what to eat next or chastising yourself over what you shouldn't have eaten earlier. Once a week I ate only once and even though I had grand schemes for breaking my fast, I never ended up splurging. And the damn cream and berries typically rotted half uneaten.

    I am hoping to be able to do this again soon. I think I can do it.


    On another topic, hey Paleobird, do you struggle with salt? I have never salted my food much but when I eat low carb I really have to make sure I get enough salt or I really feel lousy. It can be quite a struggle not to forget, and making bone broth all the time can be a royal pain, especially in summer. It helps so much though. Ever since I started having a cup of (fat-free) bone broth before work, I start the day right and feel great. Trying to add salt after I already started feeling crappy isn't as effective, and salt on my food isn't as effective as broth anyway.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Highest squat: 167.5 x 2. Current Deadlift: 210 x 3

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    I am finding this to be true also now that I am at a heathy weight. When I was overweight however, I could really pack away the fat. I wonder why this is. It's like my fat "ew ick" off switch was broken but now is working right again. Hmmm.

    This whole idea that fat can never make you fat is just as silly as the CW that says fat always makes you fat. Yes, fat has been unfairly demonized as the cause of heart disease, etc. so we should not fear it. Doesn't mean we need the whole pound of bacon for breakfast either.
    My fullness switch is better in general now. I am now quite metabolically flexible but not habitually ketogenic, and my satiety switch is very powerful, so much that I will feel suddenly full between one bite and the next and just stop eating. I never understood how my always-lean brother could do that until I normalized my body's response to food.

    I also experienced the difference while hiking with friends recently. I was not particularly hungry until our lunch stop, while others were pooing gels and sport drinks along the way. My jerky, an orange, and a Larabar made a good lunch, and later on a palter of powdered coconut water mixed into one of my bottles for some electrolytes. I was running mainly on fat stores and did well.
    “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

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    Is the fullness switch Leptin? I often have the satiety switch just flick on too now. NEVER have I had that. Increasing the fats with IF has really pushed out my trigger foods. I used to eat full fat greek yogurt still-but it would sometimes trigger me to the ice cream phase. Now, I do not even want it and I was able to phase of dairy (except for the butter) completely.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    EAT MOAR FAT! Jk, sorta. See below.



    Yes, that was the mistake I made initially, adding on fat instead of shifting macros within a calorie "budget".
    Re: low fat diet misery, I remember my bodybuilding days subsisting on non-fat cottage cheese and skinless chicken breasts. Blech.
    Paleobird;I HEAR you loud and clear. Bought some grass fed butter today and will add in eggs/avacados/CO. My plight has been a body building mindset for years and it tough to retrain the brain. I always think in terms of high protein, low fat and carbs. I'll switch it up but finding the correct ratio will be an adventure in itself.

    Meeting with my trainer tonight to discuss and ketosis plan.

    B

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by relaygirl View Post
    Is the fullness switch Leptin? I often have the satiety switch just flick on too now. NEVER have I had that. Increasing the fats with IF has really pushed out my trigger foods. I used to eat full fat greek yogurt still-but it would sometimes trigger me to the ice cream phase. Now, I do not even want it and I was able to phase of dairy (except for the butter) completely.

    I think it's a combination of hormones and psychological training. There are a number of hormones that signal satiety, and I think they need to be working together optimally to get that instant off switch, plus you have to be in a healthier emotional relationship with food so you can accept the fullness signal and just stop without feeling obligated to clear your plate.
    “If I didn't define myself for myself, I would be crunched into other people's fantasies for me and eaten alive.” --Audre Lorde

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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexie View Post
    THIS. For me it's not calories or ratios, it's both. You have to find that sweet spot.
    This is what I sadly learned recently. And what a sweet spot it is to be in when u finally figure it out

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    Great thread, Paleobird.

    It just needs some... iodine.

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