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Thread: EAT MOAR FAT! I'm finally GETTING it. page 67

  1. #661
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    Jac
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    I ran across an interesting formula for figuring your ratios from the work of Dr Jan Kwasniewski author of The Optimal Diet.
    First you figure up your IDEAL weight in KILOS. This is not necessarily the weight you are aiming for but it it your Ultimate HSIS (Hot Stuff In Swimwear) weight.
    HSIS weight in kilos plus/minus 10% = range for protein grams/day
    HSIS weight in kilos divided by 2 = upper end for carb grams/day
    The rest of your diet is fat. HSIS weight in kilos x anywhere from 2 to 3.5 depending on your weight goals (lower to lose, higher to gain)
    I'm not in ketosis, in fact I'm squarely in the zone of misery and just coming out of a horrible couple of weeks. So I'm abandoning my ketosis effort for the next 2 days while I do some preliminary counting and planning (I get completely nuts when I have to weigh and measure. Don't know why, but I turn into a stressed crazy woman. However, I felt fantastic AND lost weight when I managed to get into ketosis, so needs must).

    Can some maths whiz please check my figuring? I'm 5'5", currently 89kg, and mostly sedentary.

    HSIS = 58kg, giving a protein range of around 52 - 63 grams of protein a day. (that's not much!) Carbs around 29 grams. The rest in fat.

    I thought that when I've established my daily goals, I'd use a tracker to plan a few days of meals to see what I need to be eyeballing.
    Started Feb 18 2011

    Journalling here

    "There's a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path" - Morpheus

  2. #662
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    It seems to have been a claim that's been going around in paleo circles for quite some time. I did hear Steve Phinney asked that question, and he said they simply hadn't seen it -- and that's when working with people who're locked in metabolic wards. What he did say was that if someone's total calorific consumption drops very low, T3 will go down ... but then they found it comes right back up when the calories are increased again. A rather simpler explanation.
    Exactly. Any "dieting" will drop your T3. It's an adaptive, muscle sparing response and not pathological at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unicorn View Post
    I just had a YEE-HAW! moment! Well, actually a few. First was yesterday morning when I slipped on a skirt that I have not been able to zipper for MONTHS, and it zipped up all the way. I can see the lower outline of my ribs. Not bad for 1 week of doing this, and 5 weeks post hysterectomy!

    Yesterday was a 'crazy run all over 2 states for work' kind of day, and I did not eat very much of a lunch, just a small snack of cucumber, peppers, small handful of almonds. By the time I got home @ 7 pm I was ravenous. Yes, I probably have some metabolic healing to do. I am also fighting off a cold. Thought about what I really wanted to eat, and what sounded best was bacon and eggs. I ended up with 1 egg, three yolks, and FIVE slices of bacon. Despite that feast (and man it really felt like a feast!) I still came in at exact ratios, and under 1400 cal for the day. WOW! Granted, I would not advocate doing that consistently, but it felt really great to eat to satisfaction and still be compliant.
    Yes, a diet doesn't do you any good if you can't stick with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sanas View Post
    Is it possible to confuse desire for carbs and need for salt? Or is that just my unique spin on things
    I think that's quite possible given that a lot of high carb SAD foods are also very salty. You may think you are craving potato chips but it may just be your body crying out for some salt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jac View Post
    I'm not in ketosis, in fact I'm squarely in the zone of misery and just coming out of a horrible couple of weeks. So I'm abandoning my ketosis effort for the next 2 days while I do some preliminary counting and planning (I get completely nuts when I have to weigh and measure. Don't know why, but I turn into a stressed crazy woman. However, I felt fantastic AND lost weight when I managed to get into ketosis, so needs must).

    Can some maths whiz please check my figuring? I'm 5'5", currently 89kg, and mostly sedentary.

    HSIS = 58kg, giving a protein range of around 52 - 63 grams of protein a day. (that's not much!) Carbs around 29 grams. The rest in fat.
    That is right by the Dr. JK method of figuring things but he is not the only expert out there with a formula. You may be able to allow yourself a little more protein but do the N=1 and see. Now that you know what ketosis feels like, you will recognize it again and be able to figure out your optimal numbers.

  3. #663
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    this is kind of exciting. i've been at this properly for a week now as i had to get thru a holiday. i've not been counting anything as it gets too difficult so i have upped the fat, not had any carbs other than non starchy veges, i've tried not to eat too much protein. last couple of days i have tried the 2 cups of bullet proof coffee to get to lunch time. i've also only had one or two cups of caffeine coffee per day. i've been feeling seriously rinsed by mid afternoon and very spacey. last night i took the kids to the pub to watch the rugby. best choice beverage, long black with cream and lots and lots of water. i woke up this morning feeling awake and my pee is starting to smell funny.

  4. #664
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanas View Post
    Is it possible to confuse desire for carbs and need for salt? Or is that just my unique spin on things?
    Yeah, I think that can happen. It happened last week with me & magnesium.

  5. #665
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    I'm nearing the end of my first week of tracking calories and trying to reduce protein while increasing fat. I have been ranging from 1550 - 1900 calories typically. About 68% fat. Friday we had dinner out for DH's birthday, so kept it primal but OD'd on protein. And calories. Totaled over 2500 calories. The next day I was up 3/4 pound which didn't surprise me. Today I weighed in, and not only did I lose back the 3/4 pound, but another 3/4 as well! That really shocked me. It will be interesting to see where I am tomorrow.

  6. #666
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    Well now I know that you cannot eat all them way you want! I have completed the 21 day challenge and I feel good. I am lucky and get to go see my doctor tomorrow and see about blood suger levels. They should be way down due to no carbs (little) and no soda of any sort. Water only and coffee is a must for me. I look at it as a treat rather than taking it for granted. I was inspired my papa grok and he is my mentor I even put this in my online name. 50 lbs to go and need a little guidance in how to get there. Chicken, water and nuts are the things I mainly eat along with eggs and the occasional (bad) meats like hot dogs and sausage so any one that can point me into the. Next 50 lbs would be great. Grok on and thanks papa Dave.

  7. #667
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post

    It seems to have been a claim that's been going around in paleo circles for quite some time. I did hear Steve Phinney asked that question, and he said they simply hadn't seen it -- and that's when working with people who're locked in metabolic wards. What he did say was that if someone's total calorific consumption drops very low, T3 will go down ... but then they found it comes right back up when the calories are increased again. A rather simpler explanation.
    Exactly. Any "dieting" will drop your T3.
    Sounds logical, and that's what Dr. Phinney says they saw.

    Interestingly, Jack Kruse is saying that upping your carbohydrate level will raise T3, but that so will eating a low-carbohydrate diet, so long as it has sufficient iodine in it. This means seafood. He says what most people in paleo have missed is that we evolved in the Rift Valley and there would have been plenty of water-resources there. (I think his references do, indeed, sustain that. But they'd not be alone: Raymond Dart, and hence a lot people who accepted his general picture, missed that, too.)

    It's interesting stuff, though seemingly not congruent with what Phinney says they saw.

    Anyway, Jack's solution seems to be to eat carbs in the summer when they're there, but to go ketogenic (and particularly heavy on the seafood -- as the traditional saying has it, "oysters when there's a R in the month"[*] ) in the winter. And that probably gives the best match for circadian rhythms, anyway.

    BRAIN GUT 12: DARE TO DISAGREE? | Jack Kruse

    I always quite liked that solution when it was offered in Lights Out. It seems to make sense at a lot of levels.

    Of course, people whose metabolism would seem basically to be broken, like Jimmy Moore, are probably sensible to go ketogenic regardless of seasonality.

    __________________________[*] That was actually probably because they more likely to be off in the warmer months, and is probably a reflection on how careless people were about keeping inshore waters clean in the last couple of hundred years.

  8. #668
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    Quote Originally Posted by seaweed View Post
    this is kind of exciting. i've been at this properly for a week now as i had to get thru a holiday. i've not been counting anything as it gets too difficult so i have upped the fat, not had any carbs other than non starchy veges, i've tried not to eat too much protein. last couple of days i have tried the 2 cups of bullet proof coffee to get to lunch time. i've also only had one or two cups of caffeine coffee per day. i've been feeling seriously rinsed by mid afternoon and very spacey. last night i took the kids to the pub to watch the rugby. best choice beverage, long black with cream and lots and lots of water. i woke up this morning feeling awake and my pee is starting to smell funny.
    This is my own personal opinion and I get nailed to a tree around here every time I dare speak it but.....I really think caffeine is poisonous if you are drinking enough often enough to *need* it. Mark says it is OK with the big caveat that everyone ignores "As long as it is not being used as an energy crutch".

    Quote Originally Posted by lissee View Post
    Yeah, I think that can happen. It happened last week with me & magnesium.
    Any time our bodies are deficient in something, they send us a signal to keep foraging, that nutrient I need might be on the next tree. It doesn't know how to tell us I need 35 mg of B12, it just says, "keep looking" . I think that this is the base of many (non-emotional) cravings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Understood View Post
    I'm nearing the end of my first week of tracking calories and trying to reduce protein while increasing fat. I have been ranging from 1550 - 1900 calories typically. About 68% fat. Friday we had dinner out for DH's birthday, so kept it primal but OD'd on protein. And calories. Totaled over 2500 calories. The next day I was up 3/4 pound which didn't surprise me. Today I weighed in, and not only did I lose back the 3/4 pound, but another 3/4 as well! That really shocked me. It will be interesting to see where I am tomorrow.
    N=1 is fun isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by LITTLEDAVE View Post
    Well now I know that you cannot eat all them way you want! I have completed the 21 day challenge and I feel good. I am lucky and get to go see my doctor tomorrow and see about blood suger levels. They should be way down due to no carbs (little) and no soda of any sort. Water only and coffee is a must for me. I look at it as a treat rather than taking it for granted. I was inspired my papa grok and he is my mentor I even put this in my online name. 50 lbs to go and need a little guidance in how to get there. Chicken, water and nuts are the things I mainly eat along with eggs and the occasional (bad) meats like hot dogs and sausage so any one that can point me into the. Next 50 lbs would be great. Grok on and thanks papa Dave.
    Are you Dave Parson's kid or another Dave? Just curious. Good for you for ditching the sodas. You would do best sticking to eggs, ruminants (beef lamb deer..), and seafood for your protein. Dairy is an individual choice thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Sounds logical, and that's what Dr. Phinney says they saw.

    Interestingly, Jack Kruse is saying that upping your carbohydrate level will raise T3, but that so will eating a low-carbohydrate diet, so long as it has sufficient iodine in it. This means seafood. He says what most people in paleo have missed is that we evolved in the Rift Valley and there would have been plenty of water-resources there. (I think his references do, indeed, sustain that. But they'd not be alone: Raymond Dart, and hence a lot people who accepted his general picture, missed that, too.)

    It's interesting stuff, though seemingly not congruent with what Phinney says they saw.

    Anyway, Jack's solution seems to be to eat carbs in the summer when they're there, but to go ketogenic (and particularly heavy on the seafood -- as the traditional saying has it, "oysters when there's a R in the month"[*] ) in the winter. And that probably gives the best match for circadian rhythms, anyway.

    BRAIN GUT 12: DARE TO DISAGREE? | Jack Kruse

    I always quite liked that solution when it was offered in Lights Out. It seems to make sense at a lot of levels.

    Of course, people whose metabolism would seem basically to be broken, like Jimmy Moore, are probably sensible to go ketogenic regardless of seasonality.

    __________________________[*] That was actually probably because they more likely to be off in the warmer months, and is probably a reflection on how careless people were about keeping inshore waters clean in the last couple of hundred years.
    Regardless of Jack Kruse, I do think that there is a lot of merit in seafood being a significant part of our diets. People go and settle where there is water. Rivers, coastlines, lakes. I think a lot of our evolution would have taken place in these areas. Sea veggies are also a good addition to the diet. I would much rather have a tasty seaweed salad than an iodine pill.

  9. #669
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    This is my own personal opinion and I get nailed to a tree around here every time I dare speak it but.....I really think caffeine is poisonous if you are drinking enough often enough to *need* it. Mark says it is OK with the big caveat that everyone ignores "As long as it is not being used as an energy crutch".
    I would absolutely have to agree with you here and this is coming from someone who has an addiction. altho if i make the effort to avoid caffeine, i can cope on decaf beans as it is more the flavour i cant seem to shake. i also saw the effect those wonderful caffeine filled fat burners had on me and it was scarey.

    Regardless of Jack Kruse, I do think that there is a lot of merit in seafood being a significant part of our diets. People go and settle where there is water. Rivers, coastlines, lakes. I think a lot of our evolution would have taken place in these areas. Sea veggies are also a good addition to the diet. I would much rather have a tasty seaweed salad than an iodine pill.
    I read somewhere that the closest thing in composition to our blood is sea water. I love swimming in the sea and always feel so much calmer and balanced after. I have also read stuff about skin absorption of magnesium being the best way and magnesium deficiency. As in we used to swim alot in the sea so our skin absorbed alot of magnesium from there. I try to have seafood several times a week but then we live right next to the water so i can forage shellfish and sea veges easily. the environmental impact of commercial fishing is a problem tho.

  10. #670
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    Quote Originally Posted by seaweed View Post

    I love swimming in the sea and always feel so much calmer and balanced after. I have also read stuff about skin absorption of magnesium being the best way and magnesium deficiency. As in we used to swim alot in the sea so our skin absorbed alot of magnesium from there. I try to have seafood several times a week but then we live right next to the water so i can forage shellfish and sea veges easily. the environmental impact of commercial fishing is a problem tho.
    read on here, i think, that we evolved to absorb magnesium transdermally. although i take magnesium supps, eat grass-fed dairy and have bone broth regularly, i cannot believe how much better i feel after a magnesium salts bath. 1000% better than a soak in just a hot tub.

    most days am doing better with less protein and higer fat but work has been so hectic i haven't been as compliant as i'd like. no pounds gone this week, but inches for sure. a couple skirts that haven't fit since last year are going right on and my blouses are looser. i also feel very energetic and so much better all-around.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    Ernest Hemingway

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