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Thread: EAT MOAR FAT! I'm finally GETTING it. page 66

  1. #651
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    Primal Fuel
    Well whatever the ratios are I'm losing and feeling good and not going to do the math or the tracking. I'm happy

  2. #652
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    Dropping most aerobic activity is a normal advice when starting to lift heavy seriously for strength, as it hampers recovery and gains. It has nothing to do with what diet you are following. You can be doing standard 50% carbs diet and they will still tell you to drop your 4 runs a week, and do a max of 20 min of SS cardio after lifting and do only low intensity moving slowly to actively recover. Lifting serious weight takes care of the heart health portion anyhow, so cardio becomes a waste of time and only tires you out with no additional benefit.
    I'm not convinced about your last sentence about taking care of heart health. I don't think those bodybuilders never doing any form of cardio and who don't even walk regularly, are very healthy, and none of them get really old.
    I'm personally placing my bets on kettlebell training, which is intensive but also has a cardio component.

  3. #653
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    Strength training rather than body building. They are two different approaches, with different rules of engagement and emphasis. When you are strength training lifting maxes, your HR goes through the roof, hence you derive the cardio benefit. A person who strength trains seriously can normally crack out a decent 5-10 K run without training. I did not say *any* cardio activity, did I? I said *most*. Short sessions of steady state (20 min) and plenty of moving slowly for active recovery, when appropriate. Some authors, like Wendler recommends sprints 2x a week. What you avoid is training for both improvement of the strength and cardio at the same time. Most particularly long duration runs (30+ min).

    Any form of explosive lifting, like KBs or Olympic lifts is great as well for cardio conditioning. But, to derive strength benefit it has to be heavy enough. Underlifting when combined with cardio is a muscle shredding nightmare.
    Last edited by Leida; 09-14-2012 at 12:27 PM.
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  4. #654
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    Fair enough, I agree. Pretty much Primal Blueprint, right? My 24kg kettlebell is certainly heavy enough for now at my beginner level. I recently cycled 10 miles, after not having cycled at all for a few years, and because of my strength training I was going faster (for the distance) than at any other time in my life (never did strength training before).
    Anyway, don't want to derail this otherwise interesting thread. Regarding fat etc.: I did some ketosis but I'm now experimenting with low carb/high fat on rest days and high carb (potatoes/rice/fruit) / relatively low fat on lifting days (and IF every day). Different ways to peel an onion I guess, we all have different goals and backgrounds so we just have to find something we can do day in day out and be healthy and become strong.

  5. #655
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    WOW, PaleoBird. Thank you! Great post, and very helpful to a beginner, such as myself. I'm just now coming out of the "eat primal 'til I bust" newbie mode. It's very timely for me to come across your post!

  6. #656
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    Is it possible to confuse desire for carbs and need for salt? Or is that just my unique spin on things?

  7. #657
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    Strength training rather than body building. They are two different approaches, with different rules of engagement and emphasis. When you are strength training lifting maxes, your HR goes through the roof, hence you derive the cardio benefit. A person who strength trains seriously can normally crack out a decent 5-10 K run without training. I did not say *any* cardio activity, did I? I said *most*. Short sessions of steady state (20 min) and plenty of moving slowly for active recovery, when appropriate. Some authors, like Wendler recommends sprints 2x a week. What you avoid is training for both improvement of the strength and cardio at the same time. Most particularly long duration runs (30+ min).

    Any form of explosive lifting, like KBs or Olympic lifts is great as well for cardio conditioning. But, to derive strength benefit it has to be heavy enough. Underlifting when combined with cardio is a muscle shredding nightmare.
    Great point here, I agree.. I was surprised @ my ability to crank out a "tough mudder" event with no cardio @ ALL.. haven't run or really any form of cardio for years (I lift heavy for 20-25 min in the gym, 3-4 min rest bw sets, 4-7 reps, compound moves).. Felt like my legs & back (from squats & heavy deadlifts) still felt strong & supportive by the end of the race..

    Lifting light & cranking out cardio can stress the heart.. Lifting heavy & putting your body in "growth & strength" mode may encourage the heart & lungs (muscle) to become more efficient as well..
    Last edited by abc123; 09-14-2012 at 02:19 PM.

  8. #658
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Understood View Post
    I listened to one podcast where the speaker said protein needs should be similar for everyone no matter what you weigh because it goes more by blood volume than by weight. His recommendation was 90 grams. No doubt other "experts" disagree. I thought I had read on this thread that for a woman of 150-160 pounds we should be at 70-85ish.
    This was Dr Richard Layman, a man who has a respectable pedigree in protein research. Although he doesnt have much data on ketogenic related diets, ( his carb levels are generally in the PB range of 100-150 ) his findings on protein are worth consideration.
    His main finding is that for optimal human health an adult requires 3x 30gm protein minimum per day. He consistently stressed that optimum is 3 meals a day with 30gm as an absolute minimum. He states that adults will get by with less, but its not enough to provide for all the necessary functions of protein in the body.

  9. #659
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    Dropping most aerobic activity is a normal advice when starting to lift heavy seriously for strength, as it hampers recovery and gains. It has nothing to do with what diet you are following. You can be doing standard 50% carbs diet and they will still tell you to drop your 4 runs a week, and do a max of 20 min of SS cardio after lifting and do only low intensity moving slowly to actively recover. Lifting serious weight takes care of the heart health portion anyhow, so cardio becomes a waste of time and only tires you out with no additional benefit.
    In both cases, she was lifting heavy; however, her end goals were different which did require a change of diet for her in order to support the activity levels she maintained. And when someone states that they lift heavy, I wonder exactly how heavy that is given that LHT in the PB is often synonymous with body weight movements. Overall, I'm just agreeing that ketosis can fully support strength gains *shrugs*

  10. #660
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    Ketosis probably doesn't provide much support when you aren't yet adapted to it, though.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Highest squat: 167.5 x 2. Current Deadlift: 190 x 3

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