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Thread: EAT MOAR FAT! I'm finally GETTING it. page 60

  1. #591
    Leida's Avatar
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    Thank you so much, Plaleobird!

    I can't shake off the weekend gain, despite pretty decent couple of days. Will try to stick to under 1000 calories today (maybe 600-800), hoping that the deficit will be sharp enough to start knocking it off. I really don't understand what's going on. With the carb ups, the weight was always dropping off really fast. I guess overeating fat is far, far more dangerous than overeating the carbs.
    Last edited by Leida; 09-12-2012 at 04:50 AM.
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  2. #592
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    I've tried this after getting art and science of low carb performance and miserably failed. I don't understand how this works for athletes using glycogen. Let's say I train every day and have lots of heavy lifting compounds (squats, deadlifts...). On top of that - do running and biking. I tried to eat less than 30 carbs, 0.8g protein per lbm and rest is fat up to 200g. The thing is all lifts go down and strength levels never return. I know about keto adaptation and blah blah blah but it looks like Phinney and Volek are ignoring the fact that some athletes do activities that can be powered by glycogen only.

  3. #593
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    Until you've transitioned from relying on glycogen, yes, it's not going to work for you.

  4. #594
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    Just finished The Art and Science of Low Carb Living, I'll read Jan Kwasniewski's Ultimate Diet later, though my polish kind of sucks. Also going to read the Hyperlipid website. Any other recommendations on what I should read? I read pretty fast :P
    My sister who I got into paleo as well is thinking of going low carb too now, but she works out a lot so the adaptation would slow her progress a bit...
    Anyway this is a great thread, I'm glad I'm going back to low carb. I was scared away with all the people saying it's bad for the thyroid and makes their hair fall out.
    I felt so good and clear headed during my exams when I did almost zero carb + IF
    Last edited by homunculus; 09-12-2012 at 05:53 AM.
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  5. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by AceRimmer View Post
    I've tried this after getting art and science of low carb performance and miserably failed. I don't understand how this works for athletes using glycogen. Let's say I train every day and have lots of heavy lifting compounds (squats, deadlifts...). On top of that - do running and biking. I tried to eat less than 30 carbs, 0.8g protein per lbm and rest is fat up to 200g. The thing is all lifts go down and strength levels never return. I know about keto adaptation and blah blah blah but it looks like Phinney and Volek are ignoring the fact that some athletes do activities that can be powered by glycogen only.
    You may have better luck with the lifting with a little more carbohydrate and protein than what PB is doing. But you can do the running and biking just fine so long as you truly build your aerobic base like Phil Maffetone describes. If all your physical activities are running on glycogen, you are a lot less fit than you think you are. Train low, race high (carb that is) is often a strategy for running.

    My glorious beer was a hefeweizen so not only did it have wheat, it was the wheatiest kind you can get. I only had about 8oz of it though. Hot day, cold beer. Very nice. No need for total asceticism you know.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Highest squat: 167.5 x 2. Current Deadlift: 190 x 3

  6. #596
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    The Ultimate Diet 2.0 I am referring to is actually in English by the guy called Lyle McDonald.
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  7. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    You may have better luck with the lifting with a little more carbohydrate and protein than what PB is doing. But you can do the running and biking just fine so long as you truly build your aerobic base like Phil Maffetone describes. If all your physical activities are running on glycogen, you are a lot less fit than you think you are. Train low, race high (carb that is) is often a strategy for running.

    My glorious beer was a hefeweizen so not only did it have wheat, it was the wheatiest kind you can get. I only had about 8oz of it though. Hot day, cold beer. Very nice. No need for total asceticism you know.
    Running and biking are not problem as long as I stay around 75-80% max heart rate. But hammering uphills...and feel like powerless miserable slug. Also doing heavy powerclean or squat glycogen depleted sucks . I think this nutritional ketosis works better for people spending most time in aerobic zones aka ultra distance stuff.

  8. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by AceRimmer View Post
    Running and biking are not problem as long as I stay around 75-80% max heart rate. But hammering uphills...and feel like powerless miserable slug. Also doing heavy powerclean or squat glycogen depleted sucks . I think this nutritional ketosis works better for people spending most time in aerobic zones aka ultra distance stuff.
    I definitely found my lifting performance suffered on VLC. It seems great for endurance athletes, but quite a few folks who lift heavy on a regular basis have had a similar experience even after a few months of trying to adapt to long-term ketosis. I've found that eating enough carbs to replenish muscle glycogen but not excessive quantities allows me to have the performance I want and still be able to use fat for fuel when I need it (long hikes for example). Being fat adapted doesn't necessarily mean being in ketosis 24/7. That's where there can be an advantage in being metabolically flexible.
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  9. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    I can't shake off the weekend gain, despite pretty decent couple of days. Will try to stick to under 1000 calories today (maybe 600-800), hoping that the deficit will be sharp enough to start knocking it off. I really don't understand what's going on. With the carb ups, the weight was always dropping off really fast. I guess overeating fat is far, far more dangerous than overeating the carbs.
    Leida, I don't know there's any solid reason to believe that fat in and of itself is dangerous. But eating under 1000 kcal a day probably is. The odd day eating nothing wouldn't matter, if you got good nutrition and plenty of it most of the time. But I doubt a chronically low intake of food is anything other than counterproductive not to say dangerous.

    It's not my business, and why would you believe me any more than you would believe someone else I caught in the thread earlier talking with you? Hard not to comment, though. If what you're doing doesn't seem to be working, as you're saying, then don't do it. Go back to a couple of thousand calories a day -- and whatever macronutrient ratio you like.

  10. #600
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    So, epigenetically speaking, does "fat-adapted" mean that some genes that are turned off (such as the ones that code for production of lipases) have now become active? It seems to me that that is what might happen. If so, wouldn't it take a while for there to be a majority, or even quite a few, cells that are capable of producing lipases? I don't think existing cells change -- they have die and be replaced by new ones that know how to make lipases. There are a lot of variables here. Mark says it takes about two weeks. I'm wondering if, for some people, it might take a lot longer, such as the frustrated person in this thread.

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65725.html

    I had darkfield blood analysis done once, back in pre-primal days. The guy who did it said I had a lot of fat in my bloodstream and commented "your body doesn't like fat." That kind of blood analysis needs a huge dose of rigorous study, IMHO, but he was commenting on what he saw compared to what he usually saw.

    If you were an ace sugar burner (and I was), and sugar didn't make you fat (and it didn't), maybe it's going to take a lot longer to convert to being a really capable fat burner. Couple of months, maybe?
    Last edited by Sanas; 09-12-2012 at 09:47 AM.

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