EAT MOAR FAT! I'm finally GETTING it. page 6

[Paleobird]

Little FYI... My ability to lick a spoon of Nutiva Coconut Manna may be the only thing between my husband and a very sharp, heavy, 8" chefs knife if he so much as DARES to tease me with chocolate when the next TOM rolls around.
Fat is a good thing.

Oh yes. I don't want to come across a fat bashing. I love fat. It just has to be kept in the context of calories though.
Have you tried Fat Bread yet? A good thing to spread the manna on.

[cori93437]

I don't venture into the realms of baking... due to sodium content(baking soda).

But I have considered it... and it might be tops for those "emergency" situations.
I keep thinking if I could stabilize an egg white foam with the coconut flour somehow it might work without leavening.
Like a souffle... but one that hopefully wouldn't FALL.

[healthy11]

Thanks for the great post, PB. I just posted a question about eating fruit and then read through this thread which answered my question. How do you know when you are in ketosis? Do you test your urine? I need to do some more reading on the subject, but you do mind posting what a typical days diet would like? What are the common foods/meals you would stick to eating to get into and stay in ketosis? I've seen you post in your journal (from what I have skimmed) that eating high fat dairy has helped.

[Paleobird]

Thanks for the great post, PB. I just posted a question about eating fruit and then read through this thread which answered my question. How do you know when you are in ketosis? Do you test your urine? I need to do some more reading on the subject, but you do mind posting what a typical days diet would like? What are the common foods/meals you would stick to eating to get into and stay in ketosis? I've seen you post in your journal (from what I have skimmed) that eating high fat dairy has helped.

Ketosis can be measured by Ketostix which are a urine test strip. These are fairly accurate when you are transitioning to ketosis but, over time as your body becomes more adept at using the ketones for fuel, there are not as many being processed out which can lead to the test strips not being worth much. There are also blood test meters made for people with diabetes that measure both blood glucose and ketones. Those are more accurate.
Other indicators that you don't need need pee or blood to get results are just about how you feel.

This is from the MDA post about "What does it mean to be fat adapted?"

To find out if you’re fat-adapted, the most effective way is to ask yourself a few basic questions:

Can you go three hours without eating? Is skipping a meal an exercise in futility and misery?
Do you enjoy steady, even energy throughout the day? Are midday naps pleasurable indulgences, rather than necessary staples?
Can you exercise without carb-loading?
Have the headaches and brain fuzziness passed?
Yes? Then you’re probably fat-adapted. Welcome to normal human metabolism!

Read more: What Does it Mean to Be Fat-Adapted? | Mark's Daily Apple

Personally, I just *know* when I'm in ketosis because I feel like I could go out and spear a wooly mammoth. When I do sprints fasted and in ketosis, I just feel like I am slicing through the air, like it is getting out of the way to let me through.

Once you have experienced it, you will know it again.

[obsessed]

Thanks PB. This was an extremely helpful post and just want I needed to read. I have been at it for about 3 week and have not seen the scale budge. But I am still struggling with hunger issues and I need to figure out better meals or more variety to my meals. Ugh.. and I am iffy on the coconut oil. It taints everything!

On a side note how are you calculating macros? I tried two different sites and the results varied quite a bit.

[Knifegill]

Wouldn't you kind of notice everytime you go to do the weekly shop and clear the shelves of butter and coconut oil?

Yes, I notice. And the cashier asks questions. "Why you buy ALL the coconut milk?!" and so forth. But my one cup of coconut milk in the morning is already 420 calories - and lots of medium chain trigs! Then I cook in and drink tallow and coconut oil, add olive oil to things and eat a lot of avocados and eggs. My fitday usually says I get about 70% of my calories from fat, and that's averaging around 2800 calories a day, so you figure it out.

[Paleobird]

Do you mind posting what a typical days diet would like? What are the common foods/meals you would stick to eating to get into and stay in ketosis? I've seen you post in your journal (from what I have skimmed) that eating high fat dairy has helped.

Yes, it does. I don't drink regular milk because there is too many carbs in the lactose but the higher fat dairy products are wonderful.
So, I typically eat my first meal whenever I get hungry but that is rarely before noon. This is just a small meal. I call it my Fat Snack. Usually it is something like a slice of Fat Bread with mascarpone cheese, or a tupper cup of my homemade liver pate', or a can of sardines complete with all the fishy oil. Sometimes I make mayo in the blender and then have a little bowl of egg, salmon, or tuna salad. (I usually use avocado oil for the mayo) I also eat a lot of avocados as guac or straight out of the shell on a spoon.

My main meal of the day is shared with Dad and is generally seafood or ruminant meat with veggies and/or a salad. I have cut the protein portions back. I really think I used to go overboard on that. Also I have cut back on the quantity of salads. I used to eat lettuce like a gorilla. My homo sapien digestive system is thanking me for that change. I find ways to work fats into the meal including things like mashed cauliflower with coconut oil added, cooking in lots of butter plus putting butter on things like steamed veggies makes them so much tastier. I make pesto sauce (lots of olive oil and pinenuts) and slather that on kelp noodles sometimes. Sometimes I will whip up some raw cream in the blender and give my dad a dish of fruit with this on top while I just have a few berries on top of my cream. A spoonful of coconut manna makes a great snack. But most nights after dinner I couldn't possibly eat another bite.

Thanks PB. This was an extremely helpful post and just want I needed to read. I have been at it for about 3 week and have not seen the scale budge. But I am still struggling with hunger issues and I need to figure out better meals or more variety to my meals. Ugh.. and I am iffy on the coconut oil. It taints everything!

On a side note how are you calculating macros? I tried two different sites and the results varied quite a bit.

Why iffy on the coconut oil? Some people get digestive upset from too much of it too fast. Other coconut products? Manna?
My macros these days are around 70%fat/20%protein/10%carb.

I ran across an interesting formula for figuring your ratios from the work of Dr Jan Kwasniewski author of The Optimal Diet.
First you figure up your IDEAL weight in KILOS. This is not necessarily the weight you are aiming for but it it your Ultimate HSIS (Hot Stuff In Swimwear) weight.
HSIS weight in kilos plus/minus 10% = range for protein grams/day
HSIS weight in kilos divided by 2 = upper end for carb grams/day
The rest of your diet is fat. HSIS weight in kilos x anywhere from 2 to 3.5 depending on your weight goals (lower to lose, higher to gain)

So, at my height and HSIS weight this come out to about 1500 calories if I use the low end of the fat range and that is sometimes hard to get enough to make that. I wouldn't want to do it any higher.

I use SparkPeople to calculate and track but I often find the Livestrong database useful particularly for things like grass fed beef. I have also hear good things about Chron-o-Meter and not so good things about the reliability of Fitday. This is really a matter of personal preference but once you start entering favorites into the list, there is an incentive to stay with whichever one you choose. I like the recipe function on Sparkpeople since I do a lot of my own cooking like my pate'.

[Sigi]

Thanks for starting a really interesting thread with good info, PB. Subscribed!

I've been meaning to read the Volek/Phinney book for a while, and look closer at Attia's stuff - now I will really have to.

Thanks also to Neckhammer for the additional refs.

[patski]

This is really fascinating. Thanks Robin for starting this thread.

I'm not looking to lose weight at all. I'm tall and lanky and have a bit of muscle from Crossfit, but I'm not going regularly these days, as I've moved and can't get to my normal Crossfit location with enough time to get home, eat and get to work. I really enjoy doing my WODs in the morning. I've been pretty sedentary these days :-\

I get most of my fat from coconut oil, as I don't have a gallbladder, and I find it easier on my body. Now I'm wondering if I should use a tracker just for curiosity's sake to see how much fat I'm taking in per day. I used to use fitday.com but find it frustrating that it doesn't have grass-fed beef in its directory. I don't worry too much about eating a shit ton of veggies, and I like my liver a few times a week. Sardines, canned salmon and shrimp are also heavily rotated since I found out about my food allergies.

I do love sweet potatoes, and bananas. I find if I eat too much starch in a meal, I'll fall asleep at work a few hours later. But I've found the same to be true if I eat a Big Ass Salad for lunch. What gives?!

Thankfully, I'm not putting on weight, so I must be doing something right!

Also, I'd love to try that Fat Bread out, but it has eggs in it, which I can no longer eat

[relaygirl]

This is timely for me--I have been eating Paleo for a good year but struggled with urges to binge still. I would go 2 weeks on and then the craving-which is driven emotionally, probably, would push me over the edge. Ice cream is my drug of choice. I had tried "adding" fat many months ago but I gained. I had not replaced the calories with fat, I just added a little fat here and there to get my good fats in. I added a little fat here and there on my hips and thighs too.

So about 6 weeks ago I thought I would give the fat a try again when the binges were becoming more frequent-I have gone to about 60% fat--I do bulletproof coffee 2 times in the morning-with about 400 calories each (kerrygold, mct, CO) through my IF. Then around 2 I will break the fast with a veggie/primal fuel smoothie with added mct oil. I have a good dinner with a small serving of beef and lots of veggies cooked in CO or butter. Before 8:30 at night I might have another protein/veggie smoothie with mct oil or a tea with mct oil. I eat between 1800-2000 calories a day. Sometimes I eat eggs instead of the primal fuel-I like the quick delivery of the powders mixed with veggies. (I'm working on getting over the powders) I add berries and sweet potatoes when i am running long.

But the fat has cleared out my urges to binge. It has been a huge release for me. I feel so much better. Upping fat a ton, backing way off on protein, keeping my carbs mostly to veggies. I lost 10 lbs and not lost muscle as I have before when I do straight calorie restriction with keeping up mostly protein.

I cross fit and run (not a good combo, I know). And I am adapting to the running on more fat but my crossfit has gotten a lot better. Running-I am a half marathoner and I was having trouble the last 4 miles of races in the past month but the last race I did I could tell I was doing a lot better. It was a big adjustment going from a SAD to paleo and now from paleo to tons of fat in running.

I also have no gall bladder so it has been a gradual adjustment-I take super enzymes everytime I eat.