EAT MOAR FAT! I'm finally GETTING it. page 56

[noodletoy]

I wonder? I bought two kinds of blue cheese. One of them gives me cravings, the other takes them away. The no-cravings cheese was a lovely Stilton from England, and the other was "Danish Blue Cheese" from Denmark.

"danish bleu" does sound pretty generic and i know stilton is produced under pretty strict controls.

ah, ok! a bit of google-fu shows it's from cows that are primarily grass-fed.

[ennaejay]

I've never really gone full-on, although I don't currently eat much in the way of carbs, so I tend to drift in and out. Maybe I'll go full-bore as the winter closes in -- which would kind of make sense in the northern hemisphere.

How to do it? Less than 50 grams of carbohydrate a day, possibly less for some people. Too much protein will knock you out. Phinney and Volek have plenty of experience with using this with both patients and athletes and they suggest 1.5 to 2 grams of protein per kilogram of lean bodymass of protein. That's still plenty. If it's too much effort to work out your lean bodymass just use something like 1.4 times ideal bodymass. That's all there is to it, really. Controlled carbs, and adequate but moderated protein.

If you want some links, maybe have a look at Jimmy Moore's recent experiments on himself:

Jimmy Moore

Jimmy Moore

Jimmy Moore

Jimmy has had to go really very low on both carbs and protein, but that may be a personal legacy from his metabolism-busting mega-carb days.


Peter Attia has a lot of stuff written from the point of view of ketosis as an aid to athletic performance in endurance events:

The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D. The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D.

Much obliged! Thanks. I have no clue what my LBM is. A few months ago I found some kind of mathematical equation hocus-pocus that I used, taking measurements and figuring a percentage. No gym, basic scale, so I'm on my own, just going off of how I feel, how my guts are digesting things, energy, the mirror, and strength. I'll guess at my LBM around 100lbs. I think i can keep carbs around 50g for several days/weeks in a row. I Love Veggies and eat a ton of them, so I guess I'll head back over to fatsecret and start tracking again to be on the safe side.

I think my 2 cups of yogurt with pineapple was a poor choice today; now I won't be able to snarf down the curry I'm making for dinner with zucchini noodles. Bah! I will have to "suffer" with a salmon fillet on a bed of cabbage.
Appreciate the links!

[Sanas]

I'm having similar results. I'm thirsty all the time, despite the fact that I'm drinking at least a gallon a day. I add salt to everything, and even when my keto stick say 'negative', I know that I am producing ketones because my carbs are <20grams per day and I have a metal taste in my mouth.

Louisa, on the "Restless Sleep" thread, someone mentioned "Hypoglycemic Amnesia." It has symptoms of restless sleep and needing ferociously to eat or drink in the middle of the night. I wonder if it's this? I'm probably eating too low on the carbs, like you <20 g per day, in a attempt to feel the ketosis magic.

When you've been a carb hound for decades, maybe it takes a couple of years to really be able to generate an abundance of ketones. It's taken at least two years for my thyroid and adrenal glands to recover. So, who knows what two years of VLC will bring?

When I think about having to undergo one of those tests where you chug a big bunch of glucose and see what happens, I turn pale and feel faint. I think that would just about kill me. But I'm better than I used to be, blood sugar wise. I didn't used to be able to go on a three hour car trip without a big bag of tortilla chips to eat, and now I can not eat for a whole day.

Are you possibly hypoglycemic?

Here's the restless sleep thread. Post number 7 refers to hypoglycemic insomnia. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65633.html

[noodletoy]

That's interesting, Knifegill. Why is that, do you suppose? Maybe you're really good at burning the ketones? Long time ago, I did the Atkins diet for about 3 weeks, IIRC, long enough to get to where you can eat a bit of cabbage along with your bacon. I couldn't turn the keto stick either. Thanks for the encouragement.

i started this whole journey 3 years ago with atkins and they no longer recommend the keto stix because they are simply not accurate. they only measure spilled ketones in the urine, which is more often a factor of hydration. i've met atkins-peeps on-line who have lost 100+ pounds and ever shown any trace on the stix.

[Sanas]

"danish bleu" does sound pretty generic and i know stilton is produced under pretty strict controls.

ah, ok! a bit of google-fu shows it's from cows that are primarily grass-fed.

Thanks, Noodletoy. I must, must find some good milk somewhere. We've just been using generic grocery store.

Gotta wonder just what is the difference. Maybe generic has a lot of antibiotics? Why would antibiotics promote cravings?

[sbhikes]

If you want some links, maybe have a look at Jimmy Moore's recent experiments on himself:

Jimmy Moore

Jimmy Moore

Jimmy Moore

I'm really happy to see Jimmy having success. I noticed in the third link he commented how people are assuming he must be gorging on cream cheese and butter. That's the whole point of PB's thread here. You don't gorge on it, you just base your diet on it. Well, not just cream cheese and butter but all types of fats. It's kind of hard to do, actually.

ketosis is a natural diuretic and until you get more adapted can whack out your electrolytes. have bone broth with some salt added, avocado or plain electrolyte water -- that can be found at trader joe's and i think the smartwater people make one too. drink more water than you think you need right now.

adding a magnesium supp will also help with the jitters.

At the same time you have to watch out you don't drink too much water. I tend to do that especially when it's really hot out and I'm exercising. Hyponatremia, or water intoxication, feels like unquenchable thirst, plus there are other negative symptoms. In my case they seem to be a sense of just not feeling right, feeling weak and tired, feeling sort of desperate inside. I have to force myself to stop drinking anything until I can get to some salt. I actually prefer plain old dehydration to this hyponatremic feeling.

[Sanas]

At the same time you have to watch out you don't drink too much water. I tend to do that especially when it's really hot out and I'm exercising. Hyponatremia, or water intoxication, feels like unquenchable thirst, plus there are other negative symptoms. In my case they seem to be a sense of just not feeling right, feeling weak and tired, feeling sort of desperate inside. I have to force myself to stop drinking anything until I can get to some salt. I actually prefer plain old dehydration to this hyponatremic feeling.[/QUOTE]

Ahhhh! So complicated! How can you tell whether you're drinking too much or too little?

[Paysan]

I can never remember which morph is which. But I'm not the good one. Here are honest photos of me where I didn't catch the angle or light just right:
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8444/7...95d70a87b2.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8322/7...a74c0ea425.jpg

What bothers me is that my belly and upper arms continue to be fat. It would be nice to have more slender knees and ankles. It would be nice to resemble the athlete that I truly am. I seriously kick ass compared to most people I meet. I'm not the fastest, I'm not the strongest, but I will dog you until you collapse in a heap just like a persistence hunter catches an antelope.

My mother had the trimmest little ankles and wrists, and could run circles around us when we were kids. With the exception of a long deceased sister, none of us could ever hope to have her build, because we took after my father's family - long bodies, heavy wide bones, shorter arms and legs, boys and girls alike. Also, I would rate endurance as a fitness goal above speed and vanity.

[Lewis]

How can you tell whether you're drinking too much or too little?

Frequency of urination and colour of urine. It should be every two or three hours and a light straw colour. If it's less frequent and more of a yellow colour, you're dehydrated; if it's every few minutes and clear you've overdone it.

[Paleobird]

I bought some triple cream goat brie. Just thought I would inject a little sense into this talk about cheese. Coconut cheese? Nut cheese? Not cheese. Abominations. But I agree that maybe there is too much cheese lately. That's why I'm very grateful for liver pate and pesto.

Only brought up for the unfortunate person who can't have dairy.

What does mascarpone cheese taste like? I was going to buy some at wholefoods and saw that it was next to the devonshire scone cream? is it the same kind of flavour?

Like ricotta only smooooooother.

Oh, I know all about water, and it is not water. It is the persistent eating too much after supper with all the unpleasant consequences. I am fat because I eat too much, not because of some complicated 'condition'. So, yeah, I need to keep my eating down, but there is nothing new about it. That 'stop when satisfied' portion was always the main challenge of my body control enterprise.

Yep, that was what prompted my calorie counting threads.

you may want to switch your tracker to figure net carbs for you. carbs minus fiber = net carbs.
Nutrition Facts and Analysis for Avocados, raw, California
a whole avocado is only 3 nc.

Yes, I have come to the conclusion that net carbs make sense when you are talking about excluding the fiber from the count. That does not give a free pass to all the weird sugar alcohol sweetened stuff whose wrappers claim those carbs don't count in the net.

It seems Dr. Andreas Eenfeldt is experimenting with this. It'll be interesting to see how it goes for him:
Experiment: Optimal Ketosis for Weight Loss and Improved Performance | DietDoctor.com

Yes that should be interesting. I like his site.

I'm still loosing weight and sleeping better than I have in years. My blood pressure is coming down. I dug out my skinny cloths that have been in the drawer for 5 years...woot!! I noticed that when I walk I don't have pain and my hips swing again...double woot!! I've missed my breezy walk!! Swish, swish....and no pain.

You swish, girl!

lI seriously kick ass compared to most people I meet. I'm not the fastest, I'm not the strongest, but I will dog you until you collapse in a heap just like a persistence hunter catches an antelope.

This is what matters.

ketosis is a natural diuretic and until you get more adapted can whack out your electrolytes. have bone broth with some salt added, avocado or plain electrolyte water -- that can be found at trader joe's and i think the smartwater people make one too. drink more water than you think you need right now. adding a magnesium supp will also help with the jitters.

Good advice.

i started this whole journey 3 years ago with atkins and they no longer recommend the keto stix because they are simply not accurate. they only measure spilled ketones in the urine, which is more often a factor of hydration. i've met atkins-peeps on-line who have lost 100+ pounds and ever shown any trace on the stix.

Ya. Iv'e got half a jar kicking around somewhere but I never bother with them any more. I just know when I'm in ketosis.

I'm really happy to see Jimmy having success. I noticed in the third link he commented how people are assuming he must be gorging on cream cheese and butter. That's the whole point of PB's thread here. You don't gorge on it, you just base your diet on it. Well, not just cream cheese and butter but all types of fats. It's kind of hard to do, actually.

Yep, it's about changing the ratios not the quantities. And Jimmy seems like a heckofa nice guy. I'm glad things are working for him again too.