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Thread: EAT MOAR FAT! I'm finally GETTING it. page 41

  1. #401
    sbhikes's Avatar
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    Leida, I cut myself some slack but I tried to have a little restraint. I didn't have any fruit or whatever to try to feel better. That is totally counter-productive. I sort of limited my protein, but my goal isn't seizure control. I just wanted to return to how I felt very low carb. But I did try to get my fat level higher than the usual 50%. I was able to average around 65% fat for the week.

    Here's an example:
    B
    2 cups of coffee, lots of cream
    Sausage, beef tongue and mushrooms cooked in butter

    L
    About 1/4 cup macadamia nuts
    At least 3 Tablespoons of coconut manna, maybe more
    6 Dried Moroccan olives

    D
    Steak burrito bowl (homemade - beef, onions, peppers, lettuce, tomato, avocado, salsa, cilantro, cheese)
    8oz red wine

    The thing is, during the adjustment, despite eating way more calories than I wanted to, I didn't gain any weight. I felt kind of fat for a little bit there, but the scale didn't say anything.

    I have many pounds I can lose, though. Leida, you are very thin and you probably won't notice any miracle weight loss. But if you can adapt, it might calm your obsession with food.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Current squat: 170 x 3. Current Deadlift: 220 x 3

  2. #402
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    I don't really expect any weight loss, I just don't want to gain while I am on the W30 and can't check the scale. I don't drink alcohol at all, so I thought I can have a bit of berries instead. I guess not. I think quark might be a problem, but I already had had some today and set the next batch ... I am hoping today to try to stick with

    B (already had): ~ 1 cup of quark with ~ 1/2 cup coconut milk
    3 eggs + 3 tbsp of coconut oil for lunch, 2 Brazil nuts for a snack
    4 oz of the cross-rib roast, 300 g of cabbage with a drizzle of vinegar (or cook it in the rib broth, no sure yet) and 17 g of creamed coconut for dessert

    It's about 80 g of protein for the day, but I am not sure I can stick to 4 oz of roast, let alone reduce it/drop it for cabbage in butter or something. I guess I can try that, but I do feel like having some meat!
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

  3. #403
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    [QUOTE=OneDeltaTenTango;945068]As sbhikes notes, you are misinterpreting the use of the Maffetone equation. 180-age is not max heart rate, but the top end of heart rate to stay in an aerobic, fat burning zone. This is not much different than move slowly ala Sisson. Mark defines that as <= 75% of max heart rate.

    No, I wasn't misinterpreting the Maffetone equation. I wouldn't use any heart rate equation because it is all too general and it can be a bit anal. What I was correcting was someone saying your maximum heart rate is 180 - your age.

  4. #404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    I don't really expect any weight loss, I just don't want to gain while I am on the W30 and can't check the scale. I don't drink alcohol at all, so I thought I can have a bit of berries instead. I guess not. I think quark might be a problem, but I already had had some today and set the next batch ... I am hoping today to try to stick with

    B (already had): ~ 1 cup of quark with ~ 1/2 cup coconut milk
    3 eggs + 3 tbsp of coconut oil for lunch, 2 Brazil nuts for a snack
    4 oz of the cross-rib roast, 300 g of cabbage with a drizzle of vinegar (or cook it in the rib broth, no sure yet) and 17 g of creamed coconut for dessert

    It's about 80 g of protein for the day, but I am not sure I can stick to 4 oz of roast, let alone reduce it/drop it for cabbage in butter or something. I guess I can try that, but I do feel like having some meat!
    You should just let yourself gain. It will be temporary. I felt like I was gaining but it totally was temporary. The scale didn't really move--went up only a pound, but I felt puffy for a while and now I feel lean and I see a better appearance in the mirror, even though the scale has only gone down a pound.

    I read this guy called coach calorie who says that most women don't eat enough calories to lose weight. What he says sort of makes sense. He says you should eat the maximum number of calories you can and still lose weight. He says start at 2000 calories and eat that much for at least a week. If you aren't losing weight, ADD 500 calories. Keep adding until you start losing weight. If you see weight gain after 3 weeks, then back off 500 calories. But it has to be consistent gain for at least 3 weeks.

    I think he tells women this because too many women go too long eating ridiculously small amounts of food while exercising like maniacs. Their metabolisms are so slowed down. This revs them back up, I guess. Anyway it gave me some piece of mind that it would be okay if I ate around 2000 calories for a while, that it would probably not cause any real harm. And it didn't.

    At this point I can eat 2000 calories now and then, but if I ate that much every day, I'd be going to bed feeling uncomfortably full and waking up sick to my stomach.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Current squat: 170 x 3. Current Deadlift: 220 x 3

  5. #405
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    Regarding the 180 formula. This forum post on his website explains some of the limits of the formula and also explains the other things that go along with the formula because the formula isn't really used in total isolation.
    Phil Maffetone, www.philmaffetone.com - Forum

    In my case, I consider myself a rather ordinary person, not a special case. I'm sure that the formula is a good place to start. Yes, you do go quite slow, but consider that the inability to go fast at this heart rate shows you how poor your aerobic base of fitness really is. Already I have learned that my fitness is pretty good until I have to climb a hill, and then I always push right into the anaerobic zone. This push push push feeling has been quite the bane of my existence for a long time, preventing me from doing things like trail running and making me feel often that I'm overtrained.

    Here's the full text of his formula. Phil Maffetone, www.philmaffetone.com - 180-Formula
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Current squat: 170 x 3. Current Deadlift: 220 x 3

  6. #406
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    Hi sbhikes, I am familiar with this idea, that women need to eat more calories.

    I am positive I was eating in excess of 1700 calories ever since July, and the last time I checked my weight (> 1 week ago) I was gaining. I do not want to go on the scale now for a month, and overall I do not want to count calories except to check on macros. I was worried about being that hungry all of a sudden after doing pretty good.

    Today I woke up hungry, but after quark/c.milk at 4:30 am, don't feel any need to eat (it's after 10 am). So, I seemed to have repeated the pattern with needing a high calories/carbs day even if I wanted to avoid it. I just delayed it by 2 days (normally have it on Saturday, got it on Sunday instead). I am guessing it is a matter of habit & carb withdrawal. I will try to avoid carbs next time it hits and just do proteins and fats. And I will not control protein intake closely until I get a hang of not diving into the bluebs every time.

    I would try to make that pate finally for the next weekend with coconut milk instead of cream. Keeping fingers crossed that it helps!

    Eventually I want to be off the 5HTP as well.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

  7. #407
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    [QUOTE=Dotty Byrd;945801]
    Quote Originally Posted by OneDeltaTenTango View Post
    As sbhikes notes, you are misinterpreting the use of the Maffetone equation. 180-age is not max heart rate, but the top end of heart rate to stay in an aerobic, fat burning zone. This is not much different than move slowly ala Sisson. Mark defines that as <= 75% of max heart rate.

    No, I wasn't misinterpreting the Maffetone equation. I wouldn't use any heart rate equation because it is all too general and it can be a bit anal. What I was correcting was someone saying your maximum heart rate is 180 - your age.

    Just so no-one gets confused here. No-one said that your Max HR is 180-age. To estimate Maximum HR 220-age is a poor calculation. Karvonen is better, but without taking a maximal stress test, you won't know for sure.

    The max working HR of 180-age is the top end aerobic HR that Maffetone recommends to stay in an aerobic zone that encourages good levels of aerobic adaptation, but where you use fat as the primary fuel source and reduce the risk on stress on your body that can lead to illness and injury.

    Just to re-iterate, the Maffetone formula has no correlation with anyone's maximum achievable heart rate, whether estimated or known through maximal testing.

    It can all get a bit confusing, so I hope this sets the record straight :-)

  8. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomi View Post
    Got this off the website mentioned above concerning eating low carb/high fat. Thought there could be others who needed a recipe. Note - this is a restaurant sized recipe - so 1/2 or 1/4 the measures. I'm making a couple roasted chickens this week, so I will have some of this simmering on the stove by the end of the week!

    Bone Broth

    2 oz roasted garlic (weight)
    10 oz roasted red onions (weight)
    4.5 gallons water (volume)
    22 oz tomato paste (weight)
    4 oz cilantro with stems
    2 pounds chicken back bones (weight)
    16 oz tomato pulp (weight)*
    6 oz salt (weight) I would use Celtic Sea Salt or other such salt here
    1 oz black pepper (weight)
    1 oz olive oil (volume)

    Roast onions and garlic in olive oil for approximately 15 to 20 minutes.

    Add all ingredients to water, chicken and tomato paste.

    Let simmer over medium fire until cooked.
    Thank you! I have been so busy at work and just catching up on this thread and kept wondering how I can get a recipe!

  9. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    Hi sbhikes, I am familiar with this idea, that women need to eat more calories.

    I am positive I was eating in excess of 1700 calories ever since July, and the last time I checked my weight (> 1 week ago) I was gaining. I do not want to go on the scale now for a month, and overall I do not want to count calories except to check on macros. I was worried about being that hungry all of a sudden after doing pretty good.

    Today I woke up hungry, but after quark/c.milk at 4:30 am, don't feel any need to eat (it's after 10 am). So, I seemed to have repeated the pattern with needing a high calories/carbs day even if I wanted to avoid it. I just delayed it by 2 days (normally have it on Saturday, got it on Sunday instead). I am guessing it is a matter of habit & carb withdrawal. I will try to avoid carbs next time it hits and just do proteins and fats. And I will not control protein intake closely until I get a hang of not diving into the bluebs every time.

    I would try to make that pate finally for the next weekend with coconut milk instead of cream. Keeping fingers crossed that it helps!

    Eventually I want to be off the 5HTP as well.
    Just give yourself permission to eat too many calories during the adaptation process. I'm sure you gain lots of weight on whatever calories you say you do, but you have to cut yourself some slack at first so you can move forward later. I swear to you that any weight gain will not be permanent and any gluttony you think you are expressing during the adaptation process won't be permanent either. And even if you are somehow different and it turns out you can't adapt and can't stop overeating and gain 50lbs in a week, well, you can always go back to what you've been doing.

    If you don't like to drink cream and eat bowls of coconut milk, you don't have to. There are lots of fats to choose from.

    - Pate is good and you can make it with cream, butter and even various fats. I'm going to make it with bone marrow one of these days.
    - Pesto
    - Bacon
    - Fancy oils drizzled on avocados, cheese, salad or vegetables
    - Olives
    - Sundried tomatoes in olive oil
    - Sardines eaten with all the olive oil
    - fatty cheeses
    - bone marrow eaten as-is
    - lard/tallow

    Add any of these oily, fatty things to other foods. You don't have to go to excess, just make everything gourmet and delicious.
    - Salmon with pesto gets raves in my house
    - Top anything with the items above. Mix and match for lettuce wrap meals. Pesto with walnut oil and goat cheese on lettuce wraps was my lunch yesterday.
    - Bacon with all the grease in the spaghetti sauce poured over sauteed zucchini noodles gets raves in my house
    - An egg breakfast casserole chock full of sausage and liberal leftover beef fat got me lots of raves at a potluck. The secret ingredient? "Love" (lard ha ha).

    Gotta get creative! I'm sure Paleobird is way better at this than me. I'm just a rudimentary cook. A baby in the kitchen.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Current squat: 170 x 3. Current Deadlift: 220 x 3

  10. #410
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    Yep, I know, but coconut is the only fatty flavor so far that I don't mind, that and drippings from roasted meats. I have never liked anything olive related (I grew up with unrefined sunflower stuff that you can't get here), I am not a big fan of bacon (and I have my doubts about it being good for you anyway), cream and butter, except certain things cooked with a touch of each. I don't have enough basil to make pesto (plus husband won't have parmigiana in the house), but I make gazpacho with avocado & bazil. I am trying to roast vegetables in drippings, but I can't have carrots and beets and other tubers, and they turn out the best, the rest are just soggy. Overall, I like my veggies steamed or raw much better than smothered in fat. I do like cheeses, and have a bit every day, the organic raw kind (we can get cheddar here).

    I do like sardines, but I am forbidden to eat them in the office, and at home, I would rather eat real meat or fish than canned goods.

    So, yeah, coconut milk and cheeses are my fav fats.
    Last edited by Leida; 09-05-2012 at 11:40 AM.
    My Journal: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread57916.html
    When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

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