EAT MOAR FAT! I'm finally GETTING it. page 4

[Paleobird]

@otzi. Interesting stuff. Link to article?

VickiLynn, Some people get really obsessive about numbers and perhaps are better off not counting, not worth the raised cortisol. But for the rest of us, it can be a very good way to keep a handle on things.
Maybe I should have put this in the OP but I think ketosis has to come first, then calorie trimming. A two step process. Get the bod fully into fat burning and then trim back the quantities and the body will make up the difference from energy stores (aka the fat on your behind). Trying to restrict calories severely while still in sugar burning mode can lead to weight loss but it is the WW style of mini portions of "all the foods you love". White knuckled misery.

[Paleobird]

I'm taking notes girl!
I'd love to dip into Ketosis for a few days to speed my fat loss along, just unsure how to get there.

EAT MOAR FAT! Jk, sorta. See below.

Too often people just tell others to ADD fat on top of everything else they're eating - that's a recipe for failure. Shifting macros toward higher fat by going for fattier cuts of meat, swapping higher-carb fruits/vegetables for avocados, tossing a little olive oil on your veggies/salad - that's how to shift your macros in a reasonable, healthy manner. It's about having a macronutrient ratio that works for your body *AND* a total energy/nutrition intake that is appropriate for you.

This is a nice summary - eating good, paleo/primal foods(particularly if the carbs are primarily of the non-starchy variety) tends to be much more satiating than a diet with grains and processed oils. Depending on activity level and food type, I've sometimes found the same - that meeting caloric needs can sometimes be challenging, as it occasionally requires me to eat beyond my appetite. But this doesn't invalidate the need to eat appropriate portion sizes - it just makes it easier.

This can't be emphasized enough. Many people(though not all) do well on a version of paleo/primal with healthy carbs, a decent amount of protein, and some fat. Others(though again, not all) do well on a version with moderate protein/high fat/lower carbs. However, trying to do low fat/low-car/high protein tends to be a recipe for misery. Trust me, I've tried it, and don't plan to go back there.
Anyhow, nice post. Hope lots of people read and "get" it.

Yes, that was the mistake I made initially, adding on fat instead of shifting macros within a calorie "budget".
Re: low fat diet misery, I remember my bodybuilding days subsisting on non-fat cottage cheese and skinless chicken breasts. Blech.

[patski]

I don't get it.

What's wrong with adding fat to a meal? Is it the amount thereby throwing caloric intake too high?

[sbhikes]

And there is nothing small runny or boring about a filet mignon. OK it is small. But not runny or boring.

I was thinking about my lunch of bone marrow. A pile of quivering beef butter.

[jimhensen]

Haven't posted in a while, but I see that avatars are showing up and just wanted to say paleobird is smokin'.

[Neckhammer]

Great thread! I'm trying to think which article I posted that may have held your interest. I know I had a specific science link for exercise, but cant always keep em at hand. I tend to run through a bunch of em that catch my fancy for a while then move on. You pointed to Peter at eatingacadomy.com...he had a very good N=1 on steroids . He measured the amount of energy contributing to his workload during various activities pre and post ketosis .... The interplay of exercise and ketosis.

As you pointed out there is a good book on the subject from The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance: Jeff S. Volek,Stephen D. Phinney: 9780983490715: Amazon.com: Books I mean very highly recommended at 6 bucks.

Then there was the mathematical proclamation that the idea of ketosis being stressful seemed relatively absurd http://www.lucastafur.com/2011/05/bioenergetics_08.htm

Then there is The Ketogenic Diet for Health a great site that's devoted to the study of ketosis and science without any real bias. I've "known" the author from previous posts and she is very thorough in science and eliminates bias to the extent any human can IMO.

Of course what I consider the granddaddy of scientific information on ketosis and general metabolic function in the blogosphere http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com ...keep you pubmed, dictionary, and a PHD level metabolic chart handy when reading.

This is all in addition to what you get at MDA of course.

Either way, I've come to much the same conclusions as yourself. Although we are from quite different paths. You are an obvious success story and a good mentor for those coming in. Keep up the good work!

[Neckhammer]

Haven't posted in a while, but I see that avatars are showing up and just wanted to say paleobird is smokin'.

I just have to take this rare chance to agree with jimhensen......

[Paleobird]

I don't get it.
What's wrong with adding fat to a meal? Is it the amount thereby throwing caloric intake too high?

Exactly. Nothing wrong with adding fat IF you need that many calories in a day. Say if you were eating 2000/day and someone said EAT MOAR FAT so you added 1000 (easy to do, a pat or two of butter a plop of coconut oil....). Then you are eating 3000 and wondering why you are gaining weight. If you shift the macros so you are still eating 2000 but with a higher %age of fat, then it works.

I was thinking about my lunch of bone marrow. A pile of quivering beef butter.

A quivering delicious pile of beef butter. Mmmmmmmmmarrow........

Haven't posted in a while, but I see that avatars are showing up and just wanted to say paleobird is smokin'.

Why, thank you, Jim.

Great thread! I'm trying to think which article I posted that may have held your interest. I know I had a specific science link for exercise, but cant always keep em at hand. I tend to run through a bunch of em that catch my fancy for a while then move on. You pointed to Peter at eatingacadomy.com...he had a very good N=1 on steroids . He measured the amount of energy contributing to his workload during various activities pre and post ketosis .... The interplay of exercise and ketosis.

As you pointed out there is a good book on the subject from The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance: Jeff S. Volek,Stephen D. Phinney: 9780983490715: Amazon.com: Books I mean very highly recommended at 6 bucks.

Then there was the mathematical proclamation that the idea of ketosis being stressful seemed relatively absurd http://www.lucastafur.com/2011/05/bioenergetics_08.htm

Then there is The Ketogenic Diet for Health a great site that's devoted to the study of ketosis and science without any real bias. I've "known" the author from previous posts and she is very thorough in science and eliminates bias to the extent any human can IMO.

Of course what I consider the granddaddy of scientific information on ketosis and general metabolic function in the blogosphere Hyperlipid ...keep you pubmed, dictionary, and a PHD level metabolic chart handy when reading.

This is all in addition to what you get at MDA of course.

Either way, I've come to much the same conclusions as yourself. Although we are from quite different paths. You are an obvious success story and a good mentor for those coming in. Keep up the good work!

Thanks for all the great resources, Neckhammer. My homework for this evening.

I just have to take this rare chance to agree with jimhensen......

Awwww. Thanks.

[cori93437]

Wait a minute...
A BIG pat of butter... a whole Tbs size chunk from a stick, is about 100 calories...
You'd have to eat MORE than a whole stick... (a stick is 8Tbs)
So, a WHOLE stick of butter, PLUS 2 more Tbs sized chunk "pats" to hit 1000 calories (maybe a little more cal because a Tbs is ... 100-102cal? depending on source, but really close).
Coconut oil is a little higher at 117 cal per Tbs... but even that is manageable I think.

Adding a "pat" of butter isn't really that big a deal for most people.
Just be aware...
I honestly don't think it would be easy to eat that many extra calories of fat unknowingly.

Of course... I have volume issues so I do "add fat".
Maybe the way I see things is skewed because of that?
But I just cannot imagine A.) someone adding a whole stick of butter (or more) a day to their food, and B.) then not at least accounting for those increased calories.

[Owly]

Cori, I can see it happening rather easily. A bulletproof coffee in the morning (especially if one does not measure the quantity of butter added), a generous portion of HWC with your berries, cooking your greens in a couple of spoons of bacon fat and not draining any off, maybe more butter on your vegetables, coconut milk in a green smoothie--it's easy to add a lot of fat without realizing it. People don't tend to eyeball quantities well, and very few people bother to properly measure their fats.