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Thread: EAT MOAR FAT! I'm finally GETTING it. page 28

  1. #271
    lissee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotty Byrd View Post
    Same here Trojan. I'm scouring the posts for something that says exactly what Ketosis is, how to get there, how long it takes and how you know when you're there.
    I think that in Primal speak, this is where you fully shift from being a sugar burner into a fat burner or become "fat adapted". Where you've used up most of your glycogen stores and now your body starts pulling energy from your fat cells. Once you've become fat adapted and lowered your glycogen stores so you're in ketosis, you don't eat anything that can trigger you to shift back to a sugar burner. For example, not eating starchy carbs or thing that turn quickly into sugar like potatoes, many fruits. You also watch the sugar content on things like Kefir and yogurt and other things, because anything that will spike your insulin, is also something that can push you out of ketosis. At least that's my understanding of it.

    So by eating healthy fats, proteins, and veggis, you keep yourself firmly in ketosis. Also, to add, in this thread, Paleobird has talked about how eating too much protein pushes her out of ketosis, so this concept is also something worth thinking about. If I understand correctly, Paleobird tries to keep her ratios to 70% fat, 20% protein, and 10% carbs. this keeps her firmly in the ketosis zone.

    Hope this helps.

    Edit: For me, I know I'm in ketosis when my cravings go away. Silly, I know, but in the past few days as I've upped my fat content (and have still kept my calories down), I don't crave things like I used to. Also, I mentally feel like things have leveled out, I feel a contentedness. It's weird, I know.
    Last edited by lissee; 09-01-2012 at 01:59 AM.

  2. #272
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    Quote Originally Posted by lissee View Post
    I think that in Primal speak, this is where you fully shift from being a sugar burner into a fat burner or become "fat adapted". Where you've used up most of your glycogen stores and now your body starts pulling energy from your fat cells. Once you've become fat adapted and lowered your glycogen stores so you're in ketosis, you don't eat anything that can trigger you to shift back to a sugar burner. For example, not eating starchy carbs or thing that turn quickly into sugar like potatoes, many fruits. You also watch the sugar content on things like Kefir and yogurt and other things, because anything that will spike your insulin, is also something that can push you out of ketosis. At least that's my understanding of it.

    So by eating healthy fats, proteins, and veggis, you keep yourself firmly in ketosis. Also, to add, in this thread, Paleobird has talked about how eating too much protein pushes her out of ketosis, so this concept is also something worth thinking about. If I understand correctly, Paleobird tries to keep her ratios to 70% fat, 20% protein, and 10% carbs. this keeps her firmly in the ketosis zone.

    Hope this helps.
    I eat more protein than a lot of the ketosis crowd here, but try to keep to less than 20 net carbs a day. I do a daily fast as well and eat only once a day. I probably get pushed out of ketosis at mealtime, but I am right back into it probably about six to eight hours later and have been leaning out extremely well lately. I find, in fact, that my hunger goes a little wonky if I eat less protein than I do now (probably about 30% I'd guess). Reason for this is because protein works so well to keep blood sugar levels well-regulated and in check that I feel able to go all day. I love that feeling.

    An important part of my routine is keeping caloric intake in check however. For weight maintenance, most nutrition calculators say I should be at about 1,700 calories. I try, therefore, to stick to that number or below, as best as I can. I agree with Paleobird's note that it's got to be a combination of high-fat and calories in, calories out.

  3. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumroll View Post
    but try to keep to less than 20 net carbs a day.

    Yes I do this too. I started doing the n=1 90 day thing back in July, and have found that on average, I've been keeping my carbs between about 6-13% And it's worked well for me. Some days have been higher, but that was when I wasn't tracking net carbs (i.e. subtracting the fiber from the total carb count). Mostly I'm focused on grams of sugar since I'm highly insulin resistant and carbs, specifically sugar will spike my insulin.

  4. #274
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    Thanks Lissee and Drumroll,

    That's really helpful. I'm feeling good on 50-25-25 and I thought that was brave. Clearly I have to step it up. I just put my day on Fitday and if I just swap my fruit (sad) for another 2 eggs, it changes to nearly your ratios. Have ordered the books on Amazon and frustrated that they are not here yet.

  5. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dotty Byrd View Post
    Thanks Lissee and Drumroll,

    That's really helpful. I'm feeling good on 50-25-25 and I thought that was brave. Clearly I have to step it up. I just put my day on Fitday and if I just swap my fruit (sad) for another 2 eggs, it changes to nearly your ratios. Have ordered the books on Amazon and frustrated that they are not here yet.
    I don't worry about the ratios as much as the hard numbers. Protein is 1 gram per pound of body weight or less so... 130 grams or less daily (sometimes it's right at the 130 mark, some days can be as low as 80). Carbs are net (total minus fiber) to equal twenty or fewer (has been as low as five grams on occasion but typically between 15 - 20 grams a day). The rest is made up of fat, with total calories to equal 1,700 or fewer.

    I do worry about becoming overly insulin resistant from long-term ketosis (see Mark's recent post about that), so I give myself a carb-up day about once every two weeks or so, but after that, it's right back to the daily fast and ketogenic diet. I think that the daily fast helps me get back to the ketogenic state quicker after my carb-ups as well.
    Last edited by Drumroll; 09-01-2012 at 02:36 AM.

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by lissee View Post
    Yes I do this too. I started doing the n=1 90 day thing back in July, and have found that on average, I've been keeping my carbs between about 6-13% And it's worked well for me. Some days have been higher, but that was when I wasn't tracking net carbs (i.e. subtracting the fiber from the total carb count). Mostly I'm focused on grams of sugar since I'm highly insulin resistant and carbs, specifically sugar will spike my insulin.
    See my post below to get my feelings on ratios vs. hard numbers.

    Sugars in all forms, glucose, fructose, dextrose, whatever the name, are what I watch out for as well. I'm not at all insulin resistant, but I like the feeling of being able to lose fat in the ketogenic state, which I do.

    I definitely do not worry about fiber though since it's impact on blood sugar is essentially negligible. Atkins (and Mark too) have said you should count ALL carbs, but the recent trend in the ketogenic community is not to worry about any fiber you consume. This allows one to take in greater amounts of veggies daily and not go over the twenty gram mark.
    Last edited by Drumroll; 09-01-2012 at 02:45 AM.

  7. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumroll View Post
    I do worry about becoming overly insulin resistant from long-term ketosis (see Mark's recent post about that), so I give myself a carb-up day about once every two weeks or so,
    And thanks Dotty On a side note, it's kind of nice to find a couple of people to chat with who are awake at the same time as me. So thanks to you and Drumroll.

    So, re: Drumroll's comment about carbing up, I'm still figuring out what works for me (I was was traveling in China and got the flu, so I was out of commission for a couple of weeks, and am now just getting back into the flow of things...) but before i went to China, I was tracking every little thing. I had 125 grams of raspberries once a week, 3 squares of chocolate on Fridays (no I didn't plan it that way) 125 grams of blueberries once, and then on Saturday's I'd go get stir fry and eat with that 1/2 c of white rice. I think the fruit I had and the rice really helped. It seemed to work for me, and I didn't intentionally "carp up" per se, but I kind of felt like my body needed it.

    I think that as you continue along you'll find out what works best for you and eventually you'll be able to develop a kind of intuitive eating. Our bodies are a lot smarter than we think, and if we can learn to listen to its signals then we'll be a lot better off.

    Heading to the store now, am on the hunt for a sledge hammer so I can do "shovelglove" Wish me luck. Not quite sure where I'm going to find one here in Vienna...

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by lissee View Post
    I think that as you continue along you'll find out what works best for you and eventually you'll be able to develop a kind of intuitive eating. Our bodies are a lot smarter than we think, and if we can learn to listen to its signals then we'll be a lot better off.
    Oh I agree. I typically do not even need to track my numbers any more. I have learned from getting used to eating primally, what various food combinations tend to add up to the numbers I am looking for. I like to have a few "go-to" meals that I can toss in in any given moment, if I am questioning the numbers and think I may be messing up the ketosis thing for any reason.

    Typically, I eat between 15 - 20 net carbs, 80 - 130 grams of protein, and 90 - 130 grams of fat and 1,700 or fewer calories on any given day. If I am out of that range for whatever reason, or I think my meal may take me out, THEN I may break out chronometer and crunch some numbers. But I've become so intuitively good at eyeballing it that I rarely need to worry about this anymore, and that is a great feeling. I know I can count my calories and my macro numbers without having to really track everything strictly like some people do, with a journal or using chronometer or FitDay on a daily basis.

  9. #279
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    Quote Originally Posted by lissee View Post

    Edit: For me, I know I'm in ketosis when my cravings go away. Silly, I know, but in the past few days as I've upped my fat content (and have still kept my calories down), I don't crave things like I used to. Also, I mentally feel like things have leveled out, I feel a contentedness. It's weird, I know.
    I've been in ketosis for a while now and I would agree that you just 'know' when you are there. I have a very 'contented' feel and almost feel like it's a bit of a drug. I feel extremely calm and grounded. I have no cravings. I've also found that I can eat 800-1000 calories a day and that feels like it's almost too much food. My ratios are 70/20/10. I'm currently not eating fruit and a minimal amount of dairy and abstaining from alcohol as I'm trying to drop my last 10 lbs. I've also noticed that my body temp has risen slightly: I feel warmer. This warmth is noticeable as I'm tall, and generally feel cold (I'm the one always wearing a sweater in the summer). Ketosis is a very nice place to be and unless there are any downsides, I intend to stay here as long as possible/ louisa
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    Start Date: 25-06-12 @ 161lbs
    Goal Reached: 30-09-12 @ 143lb. Now bouncing between 145lb - 149lb. I'd like less bounce and more consistency :-)

    Started Cross Fit 20.12.12 ---- Can't wait to submit my success story on the 1st anniversary of starting primal.

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumroll View Post
    I don't worry about the ratios as much as the hard numbers.
    Right. I shoot for the grams and calories per day, but then I look at the % graph just to see how it all played out in terms of % overall with my calories. 100 grams of fat could be a high % if the total calories were 1000 or not enough if the total calories were 3000 so it does make a difference.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

    Fat 2 Fit - One Woman's Journey

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