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Thread: EAT MOAR FAT! I'm finally GETTING it. page 2

  1. #11
    magicmerl's Avatar
    magicmerl is offline Senior Member
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    Just to interject a third viewpoint (between Ketosis-ville and bacon-land), I am experimenting with IF at the moment and only getting my calories in a single meal each day. I am eating until completely full at this meal (since my stomach shrinks during the day). And I'm not restricting any macro, although it's pretty hard to eat a 'high carb' diet primally.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

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    Paleobird, what's your opinion on ketosis for the younger or more active people on these boards? I'm a young male and while I'm not super active, I do lift heavy 3x week. I have some weight (last 10 lbs phenomenon) that I've been fighting to lose for a while. The closest I've come to losing it was with relatively strict caloric restriction with macros about equal (33%,33%,33%). However, I found that caloric restriction hard to maintain and am now just at a bit of a loss. Should I try keto considering my age/activity level? And I know its really just toying around and finding "what works for you," but I haven't really had much luck with that :/

  3. #13
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    That's funny - I just came to the realization this weekend that upping my fat intake might help, both with the weight and the brain issues.

    I do thinkit's easy to get the idea that something is either A or B, when in reality it's a little of both.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    Just to interject a third viewpoint (between Ketosis-ville and bacon-land), I am experimenting with IF at the moment and only getting my calories in a single meal each day. I am eating until completely full at this meal (since my stomach shrinks during the day). And I'm not restricting any macro, although it's pretty hard to eat a 'high carb' diet primally.
    Extending the time in between meals on whatever "plan", Leangains, Fast 5, Warrior Diet, etc. will leave you more time in ketosis each day which is great.

    I find I naturally tend toward one big meal and one snack per day. But I find that any plan that has me watching a clock for an "eating window" makes me want to jump out of the window. I also tend to overdo it if I am thinking, "This is my window, better take advantage of it while I can,< snarf, snarf>". But if I don't time things, I kind of end up with a fast 5 or 6 all by myself.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    I'm now finally "getting" what the forum pundits were saying about "EAT MOAR FAT!". They were right except that was a simplistic way to put it. If they had said, "Eat a higher proportion of your calories as fat while keeping your protein moderate and your carbs low AND your total calorie intake in check", that would have been perfect.

    No, you can't eat unlimited quantities of food, regardless of macros, and expect to lose weight. Reality doesn't work that way. But eating ketogenic macros consistently over time makes it soooo much easier to limit portion sizes. I have to really push myself to make sure to eat enough so as not to lose too much more.
    QFT. This forum is a unique mix of folks from those with health/weight issues to those who do sets of one-armed pullups. I'm in the 1st group and this is the formula for weight loss for me as well. 11 weeks and I'm down 40lbs. And I had a 3 week plateau that I broke through by this very idea.

  6. #16
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by primalsun View Post
    Paleobird, what's your opinion on ketosis for the younger or more active people on these boards? I'm a young male and while I'm not super active, I do lift heavy 3x week. I have some weight (last 10 lbs phenomenon) that I've been fighting to lose for a while. The closest I've come to losing it was with relatively strict caloric restriction with macros about equal (33%,33%,33%). However, I found that caloric restriction hard to maintain and am now just at a bit of a loss. Should I try keto considering my age/activity level? And I know its really just toying around and finding "what works for you," but I haven't really had much luck with that :/
    Where's Neckhammer when I need him? He was posting some great research the other day about serious athletes having incredible performance gains in ketosis. I think it is a myth that if you are young and active, you automatically need more carbs. You probably can *handle* more carbs than I can, but that doesn't mean you need them. IMO.
    The authors Phinney and Volek who wrote "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living" have also written a book specifically for athletes called "The Art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Performance". You might want to check that out. They do a good job of debunking the mythology about carb-loading.

    Quote Originally Posted by RitaRose View Post
    That's funny - I just came to the realization this weekend that upping my fat intake might help, both with the weight and the brain issues.
    I do thinkit's easy to get the idea that something is either A or B, when in reality it's a little of both.
    The brain is mostly made up of fat. In order for it to heal, be it my epileptic cross wiring or your bonked noggin syndrome, fat is the building blocks for the repair.
    Last edited by Paleobird; 08-28-2012 at 04:22 PM.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tercio View Post
    QFT. This forum is a unique mix of folks from those with health/weight issues to those who do sets of one-armed pullups. I'm in the 1st group and this is the formula for weight loss for me as well. 11 weeks and I'm down 40lbs. And I had a 3 week plateau that I broke through by this very idea.
    That's some excellent progress.

  8. #18
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    Another interesting read is Phil Maffetone. While I don't think he specifically mentions ketosis, his training plan is for athletes, specifically runners, to cultivate and stay in a low-carb fat-burning beast mode for maximum performance. Use of carbs on race day is fine, but you should be capable of maximum aerobic fitness as a fat-burner.

    As for the weight gain, it might be necessary to endure a short period of weight gain at first. Either that or put up with both feeling hungry AND low carb flu. I've been trying to keep my calories reasonable while readjusting to low carb once again, but having a heck of a lot of hunger and not being able to keep my calories as low as I "think" I should keep them. I might be wrong about how low they have to be, or it might just be that once I'm fully adjusted it will be a heck of a lot easier to keep my calories in check. I'm thinking it'll be the latter or a combination of the two. In any case, so far after a week of nearly 2000 calories every day, I haven't gained any weight. And today I don't feel super hungry at all. I'm thinking maybe tomorrow for the first time in ages I'll be able to pull off a fast.

    My only real issue with the reduced protein thing is that it makes meals kind of boring, small and runny.
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  9. #19
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    I think Maffetone may have been the source Neckhammer was quoting the other day.

    Re the adjustment period, I have read about slamming through that by doing a two or three day fast and then coming out if it with all keto eating. I have read that it gets it over with faster and easier like pulling off a bandaid.

    And there is nothing small runny or boring about a filet mignon. OK it is small. But not runny or boring.
    Last edited by Paleobird; 08-28-2012 at 04:29 PM.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post

    I think where a lot of Primals go wrong is in embracing all those yummy primal meats so much that we overdo the protein portion of the equation and thereby knock ourselves out of ketosis. Then, still trying to hold down the carbs, we get stuck in what Dr. Peter Attia of The Eating Academy calls the "Zone of Misery", not enough carbs to run on glucose but too much protein to allow for efficient metabolism of fat. Stuck in the middle and generally feeling like crap.

    It seems to me that many people who say, "I can't do low carbs. I tried it and felt awful" perhaps could have gotten out of that Zone of Misery by dialing back the protein a bit.
    You just summed up what I finally figured out the hard way! For me, I had to get over my carbphobia in order to be able to play with the ratios until I finally got it right. So glad you're posting this to help others avoid chasing their tail despite not having the energy to do so.

    Great post, PB. I can't imagine there being anyone who wouldn't benefit from some chunk of the info you just shared.
    Last edited by GoJenGo; 08-28-2012 at 04:32 PM.
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