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  1. #181
    Leida's Avatar
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    I just remembered that both Anabolic and Cyclic Kethonic Diet both counted net carbs, not total. I assume that fibre does not mess with entering ketosis. Which means I did get in the targeted interval yesterday by the tiny margin.
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  2. #182
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Both directions. Interesting.
    That's a reasonable enough thought. But NASA is interested in this sort of stuff, and so are many top sports people. I'm not convinced it's not of interest.
    I remain firmly agnostic about this in theory. In practice there is just no way I am getting in an ice bath, just not happenin'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    Net vs total includes the difference in fibre. The question we should be asking is
    a) does fibre interfere with ketosis (since ketosis is the desired outcome)
    b) is eating more fibrous vegetables is more beneficial to health in general, because the net gives you more veggies on your plate, sometimes significantly more. For example, cabbage is 43% fibre, so you can eat 40% more cabbage if you count net vs total for no significant increase in caloric value.
    c) if totals are counted, do you include carbs from not-plant foods into the count then, or are they ketonically-neutral (i.e. eggs, cheese, liver) - again that expands your room for vegetables by freeing up carbs: my three eggs today gave me 2 grams carbs, and if I do not count it, I can have 2 cups of spinach in addition to eggs without tripping carb limit. 2 grams is significant from the allocation of 25 g, making up 8% of the daily carb intake allowable, & eggs and spinach is more fun on the plate than pure eggs.
    a) Good question. I would think fiber slows down the absorption of food and so would mitigate any blood sugar spike from carbs thus being beneficial to staying in fat burning mode

    b) Yes. More veggies on the plate is a good thing for both sanity and health reasons. More variety. More vitamins/minerals.

    c) I think we have to be consistent whichever system we choose. Even Atkins counts carbs in all foods, just net carbs.

  3. #183
    Picaro's Avatar
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    That link to 180 about Dr Jan quotes his carb figure at HSIS x .8
    That comes in at a more commonly agreed level of carb. But is this the actual Dr Jan figure, since I don't have a working link to the original.

  4. #184
    Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paleobird View Post
    i remain firmly agnostic about this in theory. In practice there is just no way i am getting in an ice bath, just not happenin'.
    lol.

  5. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picaro View Post
    That link to 180 about Dr Jan quotes his carb figure at HSIS x .8
    That comes in at a more commonly agreed level of carb. But is this the actual Dr Jan figure, since I don't have a working link to the original.
    Who's this? Jan Kwasniewski? You people Down Under have the only reliable English-language online information, AFAIK:

    Australian Homo Optimus Society Homepage

    0.5 to 0.8 in grams of the protein figure in grams it seems. But the general figure given by most low-carb people of less than 50 g of carbs a day would do as well as anything.

  6. #186
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    I just remembered that both Anabolic and Cyclic Kethonic Diet both counted net carbs, not total. I assume that fibre does not mess with entering ketosis. Which means I did get in the targeted interval yesterday by the tiny margin.
    Yeah I think I am going to switch over to the net carbs method and see how it goes for a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Picaro View Post
    That link to 180 about Dr Jan quotes his carb figure at HSIS x .8
    That comes in at a more commonly agreed level of carb. But is this the actual Dr Jan figure, since I don't have a working link to the original.
    I have read several articles about Dr JK's work, all claiming to be authoritative that vary widely in the actual numbers. I have read from .5 to .8 for the carb multiplier and anything from 2 to 3.5 for the fat. I can't read Polish and I don't want to pay for the translated work of a guy who thinks bread is a good carb source so I haven't bought his book.

  7. #187
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    The Homo Optimus link says .5 carbs is an initial level for obese folk, then .8 ongoing.

    I've seen the pics, Paleobird, and you don't qualify for .5......

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    (i.e. eggs, cheese, liver) - again that expands your room for vegetables by freeing up carbs: my three eggs today gave me 2 grams carbs, and if I do not count it...
    Maybe my tracker is wonky but I dont have carbs in my eggs, but if I did, those are the kind of carbs that count for your total. JMO Only the fiber is subtracted off to get net. Oh, how weird is that. I just typed in 3 eggs, and I did get 1.8grams. I guess with less than 1 gram it doesnt register. Interesting. That is kind of important, especially if you have one here, one there over the course of a day. It also doesnt say that it has any fiber, nor any sugar. But when I added 3 eggs to my tracker, it was just a flat 2 grams added to both total AND net.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Yeah I think I am going to switch over to the net carbs method and see how it goes for a while.
    Did I read you use SP? I have my SP tracker set to track my net carbs. So at the very bottom of the page, it lists the weekly progress with a daily break down of nutrients including both carbs and net carbs. Very handy.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

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  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopintos View Post
    Did I read you use SP? I have my SP tracker set to track my net carbs. So at the very bottom of the page, it lists the weekly progress with a daily break down of nutrients including both carbs and net carbs. Very handy.
    Yes. I was just trying to figure out how to switch it from total to net. How do you do that? Of course I will have to re-enter some of my favories that I have only entered TC not NC data for.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picaro View Post
    I've seen the pics, Paleobird, and you don't qualify for .5......
    We're all flattering her. Better stop it or it'll go to her head.

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