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  1. #171
    Leida's Avatar
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    Rawr! Bullet proof coffee and .5 pound of steak iz breakfast!
    Wouldn't steak exceed your protein limit? That protein limitation is actually a totally new thing for me.
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  2. #172
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    When I first read Kurt Harris' site he had a page in there with about 300 pages of comments and it was all along the lines of how do I lose weight. Kurt's answer over and over again was to drink coffee with heavy cream and to do that for as many hours of the day as you possibly could, then break your fast with low carbohydrate foods. If your condition was particularly extreme, he suggested doing an all-meat diet. If you couldn't even lose weight from that, he figured you were too far gone and there was no hope for you. A guy named Lex Rooker spent some time in those comments discussing his raw all-meat diet and Kurt was fascinated by it.

    Besides that thread, which he's pulled from his site, he had numerous ones all on the whole carb/insulin stuff, which he strongly advocated. I learned a ton from his site. I wouldn't be surprised if he's taken all those posts down, too. He kind of left his site looking like he was some kind of nutjob with all these nutty rants so I stopped going. But in his earlier days, he very definitely at one point was a low-carb advocate.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Current squat: 170 x 3. Current Deadlift: 220 x 3

  3. #173
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    Wouldn't steak exceed your protein limit? That protein limitation is actually a totally new thing for me.
    Not even close, thankfully. It's only 62 grams of protein. I've still got room for a little more. Three eggs would get me to 80g, which is a bare minimum for protein, and a close max for keto, as far as I know. Frankly, I'd rather be a little over on protein than under, even if it means slightly less effective ketosis. I'm only doing this for a few weeks anyway. Might still carb cycle at the top of the week - not really dead set on anything, just going on day 4 of keto and near-keto eating. I know my body is eating fat. My tiny love handles disappeared again, and it's not just dehydration or sodium loss - I think.


    Turquoisepassion:
    Knifegill is christened to be high carb now!
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    the buttstuff...never interested.
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  4. #174
    Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    Wouldn't steak exceed your protein limit? That protein limitation is actually a totally new thing for me.
    How much are you gonna eat? If you have, say, 4 ounces with a meal, then, no, it wouldn't. This is why Nora Gedgaudas says that her version of primal is cheap: you might buy a good quality steak but you cut it in three and freeze two-thirds. (Better, of course, you buy half a grass-fed cow.)

  5. #175
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    Also, I ate it with my bulletproof coffee, so that, in theory, should slow the digestion.


    Turquoisepassion:
    Knifegill is christened to be high carb now!
    notontherug:
    the buttstuff...never interested.
    He gives me Lamprey Kisses in the midnight sea
    Flubby tubby gums latching onto me
    For all that I've done wrong, I mastodon something right...

    My pony picture thread http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread82786.html

  6. #176
    Lewis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    But in his earlier days, he very definitely at one point was a low-carb advocate.
    Yeah, definitely. He was recommending the Polish guy, Kwasniewksi, who is not just LC but VLC, at one time. So were others who now wouldn't:

    CBS News Fraud – Jan Kwasniewski – 180 Degree Health

    Kurt was posting stuff like "an apple is just a bag of sugar". He's tried to backtrack on that, but it was out there.

    I think the general view is that he bought the Stephan Gueynet line for whatever reason. That's probably not true. I think he himself has posted that he was doing a lot of work renovating his house and could just not keep the weight on till he added in more carbs. I guess he has his own story, and if we knew where he was coming from ... as Evelyn Waugh said in Brideshead, "to know all is to forgive all".

    What Gueynet is up to I don't know. Maybe his professor is so bought in to the food reward theory that he can't feasibly not agree -- although I daresay he's convinced himself. There's just quite a lot of data that seems to back low-carb now ...

  7. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jac View Post
    Only about 7 days. Like you, I felt like it was a huge stress off my body. Even with the fruit I ate while I was away I have still been sleeping really well.
    Awesome. Get back to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by relaygirl View Post
    Here is a fat packed recipe-instead of xylitol you can use stevia or honey or whatever you want. It is from the bulletproof diet. I'm not here arguing the diet, just offering a good fat recipe. Don't eat it unless you are fully fat adapted! It would be very hard to to stomach and you will pack on weight if you are not replacing your fat and limiting your protein. I make it and put it in these little rubbermaid condiment containers in the freezer. I am so satisfied-I eat it and then go into about a 16 hour IF with just bulletproof coffee. It is the ultimate feeling of satiety and I have tons of energy through the day :

    “Get Some” Ice Cream
    Ingredients

    4 whole eggs (pastured of course)
    4 yolks (in addition to the whole eggs above)
    2 tsp vanilla
    1 gram vitamin C (ascorbic acid) or 10 drops apple cider vinegar or lime juice to taste.
    100 grams (7 tbs) grass-fed butter
    100 grams (7tbs) coconut oil
    50 grams (3tbs + 2tsp) MCT oil (important for consistency)
    80 grams (5.5tbs) xylitol or erythritol (or more to taste – you can add up to 160 grams if you want)
    ~100 grams water or ice (just under 1/2 cup; add less than you think you need, then increase the amount).
    Oh yumm, Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by yodiewan View Post
    From what I've heard, your measured ketone levels go down after you've been in ketosis for a while since you start using the ketones for fuel instead of "wasting" them.

    Also, I'd just like to say that I'm enjoying this thread. Lots of good info. I am a Leangains adherent for the most part, so I eat fairly high carb all the time, especially workout days. But if I stop getting such good results with the program or just get tired of it, I might give ketosis a try. I would definitely miss the flexibility and variety of eating carb-heavy dishes though.
    A young stud like you with washboard abs who is obviously lifting heavy can definitely handle extra carbs. I wish I could.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    Guys, I remember in the old Anabolic Diet times the conversation went that carbs from the stuff like eggs, cheese and liver did not count to the total, just carbs from the vegetables. Does this still hold true to the whole ketosis ideal? Because I remember how liver always jeopardized carb counts for me.

    50 kg = 50-55 g protein a day [UM, 50 PLUS/MINUS 10% IS A RANGE OF 45 TO 55 (small nit)]
    50/2 = 25 g carbs a day
    50x2 = 100 g fat a day [THIS IS MINIMUM NUMBER. THE RANGE IS FROM X2 TO X3.5]

    I put my day through the calculator yesterday and that's where I was:
    125 g fat, 33 g carbs, 75 g protein 1550 cals
    I will try to go down to 25 g, but I still find it a very hard limit to meet!
    SEE CORRECTIONS ABOVE

    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    I can comment on that. I grew up in metric system, and that was a standard formula for calculating normal weight, only for women it was your Height minus 110; and for a ballerina/young lady it was your height minus 115

    Uhm, what I am trying to say, those numbers correspond well enough, and one probably needs to adjust them in front of the mirror
    Hmm. With the 110 subtracted that is about right for me IRL. The "ballerina" numbers would be smokin' hot.

    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    If I look at my total carbs through the week they seem to hover around 40-60, which is higher than the 26 I'd be allotted according to PB's formula (if I use 115 as my goal weight, which I'm not sure is reasonable with my large bones). But I have been drinking wine most days so some of the carbs in my tracker are actually alcohol. When I go on net carbs they are so low it's almost scary. One day was 3g. I figure I'm in a pretty good ballpark though because normally when I go low carb I get about 50% fat and now I'm trending 65% so it's a difference that is noticeable.

    After my run yesterday I woke up early this morning and feeling bursting with a desire to go running again. Instead, I limped to the bathroom with muscle soreness. Oops. Oh well. Like you, PB, it feels like a weight lifted off me, not like a burden. Like Forgot, I also experienced hair loss earlier this year, but I honestly think it was because I was taking too much selenium. It started shortly after starting selenium and when I stopped it, the hair loss stopped immediately. I am not taking supplements anymore.
    I've been counting on total carbs not net carbs just because that is the way Mark does it but I may switch for the sake of avocados.
    Yes I think all kinds of things can cause hair loss that have nothing to do with ketosis itself but get blamed on it anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lawyerchick12 View Post
    Exactly Gempdix! I always thought this ideal weight never took into consideration the composition of people. I am 5 feet and I kid you not will look extremely skinny at 125 pounds. I wear size 2/4 and size 4/6 pants when I weigh 135. I am pretty big boned and naturally have muscles but also hourglassy with HUGE boobs (32DD) and A$$. BUt at 125 I will have like rock solid flat abs and small legs and arms but will still have the boobs and butt. I am fine with that. I am not sure what was the standard for the weight assumptions but it definitely did not take into consideration diversity.
    I also think people who are at either end of the bell curve height wise are less likely to fit the model well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    In the end though, you know yourself better than any measurement and you see what you see in the mirror.
    QFT

    Quote Originally Posted by gopintos View Post
    I work off of net also. Might not be right, but I do. I can't imagine not. I had the whole avocado yesterday without thinking about the macros and was shocked after I tracked it and found that there were almost 15 carbs in ONE avocado! I almost wigged out!! But then I saw my net and that almost 12 of that is fiber.

    So my day ended like this: Almost twice as much fat as I normally have. My protein is always all over the place, some days low, some days upwards of 128g, so yesterday was towards the lower end of the scale. The mackerel at supper was just so darn good that I had more than I had planned. My carbs vary so much also but usually on the low end. And I bought these beautiful cantaloupe and I just couldnt let them go to waste. So I netted 62.

    The difference today? I can't even think about food. Not even a cup of coffee. I am guessing all the fat from yesterday?

    And my scale moved down again today. The first month in 8 months of no forward momentum but thank goodness it looks like I will come in around 3 pounds lost for the month. I'll take it.
    Yay!

    Quote Originally Posted by PrimalHunter View Post
    In another thread you said you were 5'10" (70 inches). Is 72 a typo, or is this height in shoes vs. barefoot height? I'm asking because I don't know which height you're supposed to use - barefoot is more accurate in a way, but that's not how everyone sees you. When someone asks how tall I am, do they mean barefoot, in Vibrams (which I wear most of the time), or in normal shoes?
    Good catch. That is called typing in a dimly lit room without my reading glasses on. I am 5'10 aka 70 inches. With Leida's formula of centimeters minus 110 that comes out as 150 lbs optimal weight for me the same as the other formulas.

    Quote Originally Posted by PureFunctionalFitness View Post
    Any advice for the evening meal :-)
    Quote Originally Posted by tomi View Post
    veggies with LOTS of butter? You just need to spread things out better over the course of the day instead of going so heavy on one meal. Unless you prefer to eat only one meal a day - and there is nothing wrong with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by faithy22 View Post
    I haven't had the time to read through this entire thread and give it the attention it deserves - but at a quick glance I do have one question. My memory may be tricking me here, but haven't there been posts about VLC causing/being linked to adrenal fatigue? I'm just wondering about that. I used to do VLC and loved it but have since stopped. Your progress PB has really made me want to get back into it.
    What I have seen linked to adrenal fatigue is chronic CW dieting, restricting calories severely while still in sugar burning mode.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    Could someone confirm if possible if that formula uses net or total carbs?
    Atkins works in net. Mark works in total. Dr. JK does not specify so I am still deciding which to go with. WHat do you think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    And I forgot to say, yes, as has been said already your avatar is amazing! You are the glamour girl of the Daily Apple boards.
    Since you are keto-adapted, have you dabbled with the cold?
    Mark has posted some interesting stuff on the cold, brown-fat and so on. (And Dr. Kruse, although he's out of favour.) It's been in my mind as we pass from August to September. I think intuitively low carb and the dark and the cold go together.
    I find that being keto adapted makes me better able to handle extreme temperatures in both directions. Not that we get a lot of extreme temperatures where I live but on my trip to Africa I did go from blazing hot savannah to glacier covered mountaintop with no problem.
    I remain unconvinced that ice baths would really do me any good. But I have been just washing with tap temperature water instead of hot and I find it improves my facial skin tone and pore size. I think I may be descended from tropical Groks rather than wooly mammoth hunters.
    Last edited by Paleobird; 08-30-2012 at 11:42 AM.

  8. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    I find that being keto adapted makes me better able to handle extreme temperatures in both directions. Not that we get a lot of extreme temperatures where I live but on my trip to Africa I did go from blazing hot savannah to glacier covered mountaintop with no problem.
    Both directions. Interesting.

    AFAIK, Indian mystics would sit, in Indian temperatures, between two fires. There might be something going right back to sun-worship about that, but it's still interesting in and of itself. How does one do it? There was a TV show with Peter Owen-Jones, who lives near me. I don't know if it's on this video, but he came across Indian adepts who could put hot coals in their mouths without being burned:

    hinduism_extreme_pilgrimage.avi

    That defies our sense of what you can and can't do.

    I remain unconvinced that ice baths would really do me any good.
    That's a reasonable enough thought. But NASA is interested in this sort of stuff, and so are many top sports people. I'm not convinced it's not of interest.

  9. #179
    Leida's Avatar
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    Atkins works in net. Mark works in total. Dr. JK does not specify so I am still deciding which to go with. WHat do you think?
    Net vs total includes the difference in fibre. The question we should be asking is
    a) does fibre interfere with ketosis (since ketosis is the desired outcome)
    b) is eating more fibrous vegetables is more beneficial to health in general, because the net gives you more veggies on your plate, sometimes significantly more. For example, cabbage is 43% fibre, so you can eat 40% more cabbage if you count net vs total for no significant increase in caloric value.
    c) if totals are counted, do you include carbs from not-plant foods into the count then, or are they ketonically-neutral (i.e. eggs, cheese, liver) - again that expands your room for vegetables by freeing up carbs: my three eggs today gave me 2 grams carbs, and if I do not count it, I can have 2 cups of spinach in addition to eggs without tripping carb limit. 2 grams is significant from the allocation of 25 g, making up 8% of the daily carb intake allowable, & eggs and spinach is more fun on the plate than pure eggs.
    Last edited by Leida; 08-30-2012 at 12:06 PM.
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  10. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    Rawr! Bullet proof coffee and .5 pound of steak iz breakfast!
    You're so cute when you rawr.

    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    Wouldn't steak exceed your protein limit? That protein limitation is actually a totally new thing for me.
    He's a pretty big dude and that's only 8oz.

    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    When I first read Kurt Harris' site he had a page in there with about 300 pages of comments and it was all along the lines of how do I lose weight. Kurt's answer over and over again was to drink coffee with heavy cream and to do that for as many hours of the day as you possibly could, then break your fast with low carbohydrate foods. If your condition was particularly extreme, he suggested doing an all-meat diet.
    But in his earlier days, he very definitely at one point was a low-carb advocate.
    Yeah, he definitely has been through some changes. I don't find his stuff as relevant as I once did but I still respect his research skills on things like O3/O6.

    Quote Originally Posted by Knifegill View Post
    Also, I ate it with my bulletproof coffee, so that, in theory, should slow the digestion.
    Hmm. I'm not really sure I buy that theory but it is interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis View Post
    Yeah, definitely. He was recommending the Polish guy, Kwasniewksi, who is not just LC but VLC, at one time. So were others who now wouldn't:
    CBS News Fraud – Jan Kwasniewski – 180 Degree Health

    Kurt was posting stuff like "an apple is just a bag of sugar". He's tried to backtrack on that, but it was out there.
    I think the general view is that he bought the Stephan Gueynet line for whatever reason. That's probably not true. I think he himself has posted that he was doing a lot of work renovating his house and could just not keep the weight on till he added in more carbs. I guess he has his own story, and if we knew where he was coming from ... as Evelyn Waugh said in Brideshead, "to know all is to forgive all".
    What Gueynet is up to I don't know. Maybe his professor is so bought in to the food reward theory that he can't feasibly not agree -- although I daresay he's convinced himself. There's just quite a lot of data that seems to back low-carb now ...
    That link you cited actually shows how badly CBS news mis-represented Dr. JK's system.
    I only say tht what I am doing is "loosely based" on Dr JK because while I go with his system of figuring grams for macros, I don't go with his recommendation for how to eat your tiny amount of carbs (as the starches common in his native Polish diet. I would rather have more carrots than a small amount of bread). Also he went off into some weird stuff in his book, that I have read translated excerpts of, about this diet making a person into a morally superior human being . Ohhhkaaayyy.

    Re KH. Yeah he has been all over the map.

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