EAT MOAR FAT! I'm finally GETTING it. page 12

[relaygirl]

I obviously can't quote!!! Sorry!!!

[oxide]

I hope things change for me and I can eat fat without gagging.

I'm the same way... can't stand the chunks of fat on the edge of steak, or strips of fat on, say, procuttio [sp?].
You'll get used to the greasy fat on your lips, but as for spongy fat that your teeth cant break up... nope. Ground beef and chicken thighs are a good place to start.

I don't quite understand ketosis and don't feel the need to be there.

[StackingPlates]

But my question to that study, is how close is everyone being apples to apples? I have read men might lose more/faster than women, I have read it is easier when you start & have lots to lose (like my experience) and I have read as you get closer to goal it is harder to lose. So I just wonder what kind of a playing field everyone was on when they started.

Participants (n = 20) were stratified by age, sex, and BMI and randomly assigned to 1 of 2 experimental diets: the ketogenic LC (KLC) diet or the low-fat, nonketogenic LC (NLC) diet.

During the 6-wk feeding trial, all food and beverages were provided to participants, who remained sedentary. Hot lunches were prepared and served to participants Monday through Friday at the test site. Breakfast, dinner, and weekend meals were prepared and packaged for participants to take home. After the 6-wk trial, participants were instructed to continue following their diet plan (KLC or NLC) on their own for 4 wk. A registered dietitian discussed the diet details with each participant and provided daily meal plans and recipes for these 4 wk.

This is pretty well designed; short of being a ward based study. It also would have been nice to have a washout period followed by a crossover.

More-so than weight loss, the part that should be seriously considered by those wanting to "just go Keto" is this written by the research team...

"...because ketogenic diets have been associated with adverse metabolic events including elevated LDL and cardiac complications."

CITES
Larosa JC, Fry AG, Muesing R, Rosing DR. Effects of high-protein, low-carbohydrate dieting on plasma lipoproteins and body weight. J Am Diet Assoc 1980;77:264–70.
Best TH, Franz DN, Gilbert DL, Nelson DP, Epstein MR. Cardiac complications in pediatric patients on the ketogenic diet. Neurology 2000;54:2328–30
Stevens A, Robinson DP, Turpin J, Groshong T, Tobias JK. Sudden cardiac death of an adolescent during dieting. South Med J 2002;95:1047–9.

[Leida]

I think I will start with the unlimied non-starchy veggies and up to 1/2 cup of blueberries a day, no carb-ups kindda plan, and see if I can stay in the no artificial hunger state without having to limit veggie intake to 4 oz of cabbage and 2 cups of spinach (I calculated it for today, and that amount of veggies took me to the sky-high 24 g of carbs).

[sbhikes]

Stackingplates, you are really very invested in ensuring people don't use a ketogenic diet. However, nobody who does use one is pushing it on you. We are all merely describing how much better it works for us. Do you have an agenda? Because you are starting to remind me of that pro soybean guy in that other thread. Maybe you can keep your scare-mongering to yourself. The silly things you bring up are totally unfounded and I could find you as many articles demonstrating whatever I want as you can find showing whatever the heck you want. You can start by reading the Eating Academy and Protein Power websites if you want to see the stuff I'd link to here. All I can think of is you must have an agenda. Even Mark insists he won't budge on the whole carb curve thing because of all the powerful testimonials he gets day in and day out. Anyway, aren't there some metal plates that need stacking somewhere?

[Trojan]

Stackingplates, you are really very invested in ensuring people don't use a ketogenic diet. However, nobody who does use one is pushing it on you. We are all merely describing how much better it works for us. Do you have an agenda? Because you are starting to remind me of that pro soybean guy in that other thread. Maybe you can keep your scare-mongering to yourself. The silly things you bring up are totally unfounded and I could find you as many articles demonstrating whatever I want as you can find showing whatever the heck you want. You can start by reading the Eating Academy and Protein Power websites if you want to see the stuff I'd link to here. All I can think of is you must have an agenda. Even Mark insists he won't budge on the whole carb curve thing because of all the powerful testimonials he gets day in and day out. Anyway, aren't there some metal plates that need stacking somewhere?

Right on girl!

[solstice]

Stackingplates, you are really very invested in ensuring people don't use a ketogenic diet. However, nobody who does use one is pushing it on you. We are all merely describing how much better it works for us. Do you have an agenda? Because you are starting to remind me of that pro soybean guy in that other thread. Maybe you can keep your scare-mongering to yourself. The silly things you bring up are totally unfounded and I could find you as many articles demonstrating whatever I want as you can find showing whatever the heck you want. You can start by reading the Eating Academy and Protein Power websites if you want to see the stuff I'd link to here. All I can think of is you must have an agenda. Even Mark insists he won't budge on the whole carb curve thing because of all the powerful testimonials he gets day in and day out. Anyway, aren't there some metal plates that need stacking somewhere?

wow---amen! +1!

[otzi]

My Gawd, they are right! Ketogenic diets are bad and will kill you--many studies prove it:

Atkins Diet can increase cancer risk : The Canadian National Newspaper

"...High protein diet gurus usually claim they know the truth and that all other doctors and scientists are wrong. They promote the idea that their recommended diet is healthy. They would have their devotees believe there is a worldwide conspiracy, including more than 3,500 scientific studies, involving more than 15,000 research scientists, reporting a relationship between the consumption of meats, poultry, eggs, and dairy products, with heart disease, cancer, kidney failure, constipation, gallstones, diverticulosis, and hemorrhoids, just to name a few...

...These Atkins side effects and dangers and other high protein diets have to be considered, within the context of the results obtainable with my Eat To Live program, an approach designed to reverse heart disease as one dramatically loses weight."

[sbhikes]

My Gawd, they are right! Ketogenic diets are bad and will kill you--many studies prove it:

Atkins Diet can increase cancer risk : The Canadian National Newspaper

"...High protein diet gurus usually claim they know the truth and that all other doctors and scientists are wrong. They promote the idea that their recommended diet is healthy. They would have their devotees believe there is a worldwide conspiracy, including more than 3,500 scientific studies, involving more than 15,000 research scientists, reporting a relationship between the consumption of meats, poultry, eggs, and dairy products, with heart disease, cancer, kidney failure, constipation, gallstones, diverticulosis, and hemorrhoids, just to name a few...

...These Atkins side effects and dangers and other high protein diets have to be considered, within the context of the results obtainable with my Eat To Live program, an approach designed to reverse heart disease as one dramatically loses weight."

A relationship? Ooh, how definitive! We all know how valuable those associative studies are. And that list of ailments? How are those not the ailments of people on the standard American diet?

[otzi]

N=20, 6 weeks, completely different outcome than study posted by Stacking Dishes

A Ketogenic Diet Favorably Affects Serum Biomarkers for Cardiovascular Disease in Normal-Weight Men

CONCLUSION: Numerous studies now suggest that high-carbohydrate diets can raise TAG levels, create small, dense LDL particles, and reduce HDL cholesterol (i.e., atherogenic dyslipidemia)—a combination along with insulin resistance, that has been termed syndrome X (42,43). Syndrome X is postulated to be resistance to insulin-mediated glucose disposal by muscle (44), 30% of adult males and 10% to 15% of postmenopausal women have this particular syndrome X profile, which is associated with several-fold increase in heart disease risk. Replacing saturated fat with carbohydrate appears to accentuate insulin concentrations and the atherogenic dyslipidemia associated with syndrome X (44,45). The ketogenic diet in this study resulted in favorable responses in fasting TAG, postprandial lipemia, HDL-C, LDL particle size, and insulin levels in healthy normolipidemic men. Although the duration of the diet was short (6 wk), these data suggest that a ketogenic diet does not have an adverse effect on accepted biochemical risk factors for CVD and improves those associated with syndrome X.