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  1. #11
    Lajoie's Avatar
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    How nice of you to try to help out your mom like that.

    I read that your mom lives in Belgium and is able to read dutch. Perhaps this summary of a dissertation from a dutch dr. will be a tool to get your mother interested. It is mainly about the necessity of certain fatty acids, but moreover it explains a lot about the the nutritional differences between now and the stoneage.

    For me it did the trick at least, since this research got me into Paleo in the first place.

    http://www.foodlog.nl/files/achtergr...e_leek_(1).pdf

  2. #12
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    Does she read any French? You might have more luck finding materials in French. I live in Belgium and haven't seen much in terms of Paleo information here - in the media or in bookshops

    Regarding direct advice - if I were you, I would not overdo on it (although you know your mum best so it's up to you). From my own experience - it took me about a year to transition into paleo/primal, no relative or professional would have convinced me to jump in 100%earlier. The old ways are very strongly engrained, plus I had already lost all the excess weight by cleaning up my diet conventionally and counting calories. I had to do all the research myself and find my way here. Also small steps are better than a huge jump into unknown and a subsequent failure. Therefore I would advise her to cut all processed stuff and sugar first and cut majority of bread/pasta and other grain like things. Let her start living with that and then come to the next step it she's happy to do so. In the meantime, 'feed' her info on health benefits of givng up grain, oils etc. completely.
    Best of luck! Hope you manage to do that (I failed with my parents but they don't really have weight problems).

  3. #13
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    Been there, have lived to tell the tale~ First question, is she in menopause and is she taking any HRT or herbal supplements to help stabilize her hormones? Also, what about depression? It's easy to overeat carbs when pain and/or hormone fluctuations cause depression. Could she start with walking? I find that just getting out and strolling around the neighborhood lifts my spirits~

    And FWIW, I find that IF is the most effective/easiest way to reduce my calorie load~ sometimes, skipping a meal or two is easier than eating smaller portions.

  4. #14
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    I'm older than her, my son found MDA and got me interested.

    Based on your success, she should be willing to do what worked for me, if she is internet active. I would not give her "rules", let her figure it out, it will work better for her, you can be the fount of knowledge when she has questions.

    My son got me to look up Marks site, nose around the forums, and sign up for the intro emails off the "start here" tab, and downloaded the intro pdf. The emails are good "bite size" information pieces. All good stuff, and very convincing. I'm 65, progressed from 200 lbs in college almost straight line to nearly 300 peak in 2006, felt bad, looked bad, lard butt, no juice at all. Dropped to 220 on my own by 2007 through grinding diet/exercise but could not keep it off, was back at 256 in July. Now down to 238 in last 8 weeks with primal approach, and am also seeing lower blood pressure. I'm doing a lot of low intensity stuff, mainly walking daily and Schwinn Air Dyne exercise bike most days, with some "sprints" on it. All in all, not too much different than what I was doing before Primal, but I feel so much better. The hardest part was seeing all the junque leave the 'fridge and kitchen shelves

    Things to emphasize with her:
    She will feel better
    She will have more energy
    She will not be hungry all the time
    She will lose weight, but weight loss will not be the be-all / end-all of her existence
    The approach from Mark is great, he doesn't castigate you for falling off the wagon, just get back on and do your thing. It is an effective low key approach. The P90X program has a great motto that applies: "Do your best, and forget the rest"
    And, ask her: If you are what you eat, do you want to be a tiger or a twinkie?

  5. #15
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    Thank you very much for all the great suggestions. Food for thought for sure!

    A few reactions:

    Quote Originally Posted by noodletoy View Post
    your intentions are great, but a lot of this depends on your mom? is she truly amenable to ditching cw and sad? sure, she wants to lose weight and feel better, but it will mean major changes and probably defying what her doctors have told her is "healthy."

    IF she can overcome this, i think your initial outline is good, and the thought of doing a low-carb "induction" is excellent. how much fruit are we talking? a handful of berries or 2-3 pears? big difference in the insulin impact. you'd also have to teach her how to deal with the low-carb flu. feeling worse before you feel better is a major discouragement to many.

    she won't need as much food as you do, and at her age, calories will matter. can she take walks or swim?

    you may also want to discuss inflammation and the role certain foods play there. for somebody living with chronic pain this may the key that opens the primal gate for real for her. by ditching crackers and bread, she kills 2 guilty inflammatory birds : crap grains and crap oils.

    good luck!
    I think she can change. She already knows fats are not bad per se and even on Weightwatchers she used to drink olive oil to get certain fats in... A good thing about WW, I suppose, is: at least they taught her how to track with that silly point system. She put in an effort to do all this because she thought it was good for her, so I may try to convince her to track new and better parameters, such as her waist line and her carbohydrate intake (if she feels up for it of course, I personally hate food tracking but it seemed to work for her). That may create a bit of accountability to herself. As for fruit, she loves Danone yoghurt with fresh apples, pears, kiwis, bananas. Quite a lot I would say, but I think it should be doable to convince her to decrease her intake a bit. She used to swim as it's the best for her back, but hasn't lately. The chronic pain is an issue. She loves to walk (she lives in the countryside with a great husband) but has to really time her outings as otherwise the next day she doesn't get out of bed because of the pain. The chronic pain was caused by a fall on the ice when she was 20 and several surgeries over the years that never solved it and only made things worse. Grains and sugar won't have helped, although in Europe the food isn't that processed compared to the USA and they do cook at home. A bit like the French, completely different food culture than in the USA and UK, but it doesn't mean it will lead you to health (processed soy crap is now being promoted as being healthy. The irony is I was a vegetarian for 7 years and ate and advocated all the veggie nonsense myself...).


    Quote Originally Posted by noodletoy View Post
    this would be 3 large eggs and 5-6 strips of bacon, plus the butter for cooking, that may be too much food for her.
    Yes, won't include that rule as that is based on Kruse's leptin reset protocol, but perhaps I can rephrase it to say "add some protein at breakfast, enjoy your bacon and eggs and feel good about it". Maybe I won't give any rules, I'll just see what she says and what she feels comfortable with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tercio View Post
    All good ideas. I'd also point her to the other thread about the 1958 diet book http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread65010.html as proof this isn't some crazy, new internet fad, but is instead a rediscovery of what used to be common knowledge.
    An important point indeed, and one which I will stress: "look, just eat how human beings were evolved to eat, it's actually pretty simple". A powerful argument is to take a minute to explain the history of homo sapiens' diet and how it changed so drastically over the last 10,000 years, with even more change in the last 100 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by jojohaligo View Post
    She could read this post (I can read half of it):
    Het primal blueprint dieet - Plazilla.com
    Thanks, didn't realise something about the Blueprint in Dutch existed. Good to know, but not sure I can use it in its present form as the way certain sentences are phrased make it look a bit like a fad diet, and I want to avoid that. Still, the 10 bullet points are useful as a reference.

    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    Don't bother. Maybe point her toward some resources and frame it as this is what worked for me. Then leave it alone. My mother thought oh wow, I'm going to try this, and what she did was make almond flour pancakes for breakfast and eat ice cream sundaes every night for her "20%". After a few weeks she declared that the diet didn't work for her. She never heard my message about eating only meat and vegetables. She claimed she couldn't eat that much protein. In the end, she didn't lose any weight and didn't stay with it, but she thanked me for turning her on to almond flour pancakes.
    The don't bother approach is one I am using with my dad and his new wife, who I know won't listen so I don't bother even though I know they will get into serious problems at some point. I do think and hope my mom is different though, and the fact that she asked me and I didn't force it onto her is a good sign.

    Quote Originally Posted by ciavyn View Post
    See what books have been translated into her language. Surely there must be some.

    I'm actually dealing with this with some friends. Depending on her personality, the most effective might be some personal stories pulled from here, or ANY OTHER Primal/Paleo blog. There's a ton of them out there, and when you start reading and understanding how it works, it is mind-blowing.

    I would also make sure to arm her with some recipes -- what are some of her favorite foods that you could tweak? How about some new recipes with her favorite meats, cheeses, or subbing an alternative flour? Make her your favorite primal bread -- sometimes people need a transition, and they need some primal-ized foods. It's a necessary emotional crutch for the first hurdle. Now I rarely make such things...but in the beginning, it helped me transition.

    I would help her locate resources for the food she should be eating and go shopping with her. Let her see the whole world of yummy foods that are out there. We have a relationship with our farmers, and it makes such a difference -- I feel guilty if I buy from the store now, because I would prefer to visit our local neighbors and give them the money.

    Half the battle of the transition is making connections -- it has a lot less to do with restrictions. Once those connections are made, this gets really easy.
    There's a great blog at Het Paleo Perspectief | Het zoogdier mens beschouwd door de troebele lens van de evolutie, I'm copying and pasting a few great articles into a Word document to use at some point when the time is ripe.
    As for food, there are certainly primal options available (local farmers around, and at home they grow their own vegetables at times + used to have chickens and sheep in the garden -- irony again how I was horrified when they slaughtered and butchered a sheep in our garage when I was a misguided vegetarian and how now primal stuff excites me ). I think I can use the argument of "just eat food your granny prepared" as traditional Belgian food has a lot of elements from French cuisine and isn't bad at all. I don't see her enough unfortunately to really guide her much, but yes, probably a good idea to cook something when I am there soon (problem is I am not a great cook and I just keep it very basic meat/fish and veggies, nothing fancy). The more I think about it, the more I think it would be just a matter of avoiding certain things and to adopt a bit more fat and protein in her diet.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lajoie View Post
    How nice of you to try to help out your mom like that.

    I read that your mom lives in Belgium and is able to read dutch. Perhaps this summary of a dissertation from a dutch dr. will be a tool to get your mother interested. It is mainly about the necessity of certain fatty acids, but moreover it explains a lot about the the nutritional differences between now and the stoneage.

    For me it did the trick at least, since this research got me into Paleo in the first place.

    http://www.foodlog.nl/files/achtergr...e_leek_(1).pdf
    Thank you! Just skimmed through it and it seems like a very interesting text! She is a nurse so she does have a medical background, which may make it easier. I'll read the full text tonight and hopefully can add it to my resources.
    Last edited by FlyingPig; 08-28-2012 at 11:48 AM.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by inesenite View Post
    Does she read any French? You might have more luck finding materials in French. I live in Belgium and haven't seen much in terms of Paleo information here - in the media or in bookshops

    Regarding direct advice - if I were you, I would not overdo on it (although you know your mum best so it's up to you). From my own experience - it took me about a year to transition into paleo/primal, no relative or professional would have convinced me to jump in 100%earlier. The old ways are very strongly engrained, plus I had already lost all the excess weight by cleaning up my diet conventionally and counting calories. I had to do all the research myself and find my way here. Also small steps are better than a huge jump into unknown and a subsequent failure. Therefore I would advise her to cut all processed stuff and sugar first and cut majority of bread/pasta and other grain like things. Let her start living with that and then come to the next step it she's happy to do so. In the meantime, 'feed' her info on health benefits of givng up grain, oils etc. completely.
    Best of luck! Hope you manage to do that (I failed with my parents but they don't really have weight problems).
    A bit of French, oui, un petit peu, I may have a look You're right I probably shouldn't overdo the advice so I think I'll just see what she says when I see her towards the end of this week, and take it from there. I was tempted to send her a few texts in Dutch but resisted as it can be counterproductive. Good point about the gradual stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nady View Post
    Been there, have lived to tell the tale~ First question, is she in menopause and is she taking any HRT or herbal supplements to help stabilize her hormones? Also, what about depression? It's easy to overeat carbs when pain and/or hormone fluctuations cause depression. Could she start with walking? I find that just getting out and strolling around the neighborhood lifts my spirits~

    And FWIW, I find that IF is the most effective/easiest way to reduce my calorie load~ sometimes, skipping a meal or two is easier than eating smaller portions.
    IF works wonders for me (I used to be the one hungry all the time, and my other half cannot believe I easily skip breakfast now and have done a few full day fasts and even longer) but I read older women have to be a bit careful. Still, I think I can make the point that I did it and that if I can do it, everybody can, and that it is important to learn to recognise real hunger.

    She was prone to depression when she was still with my dad but she seems a lot happier now with her new husband. Menopause, I think so but not too sure actually. How much difference does it make?

    I agree with the strolling in the neigbourhood as I started doing exactly that and it has also made me much more cheerful. The problem is she is physically limited because of her back and chronic pain so she has to take it really easy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rig D View Post
    I'm older than her, my son found MDA and got me interested.

    Based on your success, she should be willing to do what worked for me, if she is internet active. I would not give her "rules", let her figure it out, it will work better for her, you can be the fount of knowledge when she has questions.

    My son got me to look up Marks site, nose around the forums, and sign up for the intro emails off the "start here" tab, and downloaded the intro pdf. The emails are good "bite size" information pieces. All good stuff, and very convincing. I'm 65, progressed from 200 lbs in college almost straight line to nearly 300 peak in 2006, felt bad, looked bad, lard butt, no juice at all. Dropped to 220 on my own by 2007 through grinding diet/exercise but could not keep it off, was back at 256 in July. Now down to 238 in last 8 weeks with primal approach, and am also seeing lower blood pressure. I'm doing a lot of low intensity stuff, mainly walking daily and Schwinn Air Dyne exercise bike most days, with some "sprints" on it. All in all, not too much different than what I was doing before Primal, but I feel so much better. The hardest part was seeing all the junque leave the 'fridge and kitchen shelves

    Things to emphasize with her:
    She will feel better
    She will have more energy
    She will not be hungry all the time
    She will lose weight, but weight loss will not be the be-all / end-all of her existence
    The approach from Mark is great, he doesn't castigate you for falling off the wagon, just get back on and do your thing. It is an effective low key approach. The P90X program has a great motto that applies: "Do your best, and forget the rest"
    And, ask her: If you are what you eat, do you want to be a tiger or a twinkie?
    Thank you, great to hear your story. I think I do indeed need to emphasize this is about so much more than losing weight. I can relate it back to myself how better sleep has completely transformed me, sorted out my hunger problems and gave me much more mental clarity. I agree Mark's approach in this respect is great, which is why I ended up here.

  7. #17
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    My Dad is old enough to be your grandfather (86) and has recently gone Primal with amazing results.

    Pre-diabetes diagnosis gone
    Inflammation in the legs gone
    Peripheral neuropathy pain gone
    Blood pressure down from scary high on two meds to 115/65 consistently without BP meds
    Has gotten off of four out of five medications leading to more energy, alertness, cognitive function

    It's just a joy to watch him coming back to life again. He proves that it is never too late to make a positive change.

  8. #18
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    Yes, won't include that rule as that is based on Kruse's leptin reset protocol, but perhaps I can rephrase it to say "add some protein at breakfast, enjoy your bacon and eggs and feel good about it". Maybe I won't give any rules, I'll just see what she says and what she feels comfortable with.
    kruse paints with a very broad brush and i know plenty of women who gained weight trying to follow his reset. for many, especially those over 40, it's just too much food.

    many women have varying to bad results with fasting. i really wouldn't worry about it for her right now. let her clean up her diet first.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    Ernest Hemingway

  9. #19
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    She was prone to depression when she was still with my dad but she seems a lot happier now with her new husband. Menopause, I think so but not too sure actually. How much difference does it make?
    a woman's body is designed to store fat, so it can make and grow babies. when women approach and reach menopause their hormones can be all over the place, causing fat storage in places it never went before, and making it harder to lose weight. certain hrt cause weight gain and so do many meds.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    Ernest Hemingway

  10. #20
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    I wouldn't recommend a cheat day. We always cheat a little over our allowed cheat. The only way I can do it is to have NO cheating. Then I only cheat a little bit.

    I like the fat-burner vs. sugar-burner aspect of this. That's usually simple enough so that her eyes don't glaze over. I've been using the analogy of an electric car vs. a gasoline car. That seemed to have a good effect on my co-worker.
    5'0" female, 43 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Current weight: skinny-fat 106.5 lbs because of sugar cheating.

    MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs.

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