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Thread: Nutritional Ketosis page 9

  1. #81
    Annlee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Correction. On the EAT MOAR FAT thread I posted several expert opinions about how much protein to get one of which was Dr. Jan Kwasnieski's Optimal Diet which says ideal weight in kilos=#of grams of protein per day plus or minus 10%. Other experts such as Drs. Phinney and Volek say 1.5 grams per kilo of ideal weight. I personally find a sweet spot in between those two.

    And as to a non dairy high fat source, try bone marrow.
    My n=1 -- I find I operate best (and that's important to me: I have a moderately high stress job, which currently is more like very high stress, with once again quite a bit of business travel) at 65-100 or maybe 105g protein per day.

    Stats: 5'1" (155cm), CW 137 (62kg), GW 110-115 (50-52kg)

    Dr. Kwasniewski's level for me (45-57g) leaves me dragging under the stress. But a Phinney/Volek 1.5-2.5g/kg* ideal weight (75-130g) seems to suit my needs.

    YMWV - Your Mileage Will Vary (from mine, and will probably vary over time)

    * in their first book - still going back through the second book for detail

  2. #82
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    I listened to a podcast by an expert on protein, I think his name was Layman, and he recommends 90 grams for most people, preferably divided over three meals.

  3. #83
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    I just recently upped my fat intake by 100 cal/per day by putting 1/2 a tblsp of butter in two of my cups of coffee (first and the 4pm one). Because I also track calories, protein, and carbs (Cronometer), I was a little alarmed that "for some reason," my protein grams were lower than they were previously. Then I had an "Oh duh" moment and realized that to stay within my target calories, of course they would. 100 cal ~ 25 grams of protein.

    Since I just naturally eat high protein for my "right" weight (110-115 lbs and I was eating between 85 and 130 grams of protein), this addition of fat naturally lowered my intake of protein to what is probably a healthier range.

    At 1200 cal/day, I can plan a large meal (at supper) and a smaller one (call it a midnight snack) that sate me. As I get closer to goal, the weight comes off much more slowly, but to mitigate that I weigh myself less often. heh.

    Honestly, I don't see much of a difference in speed of weight loss with the extra fat, but I have fewer days where I want to eat before 7pm and that's a good thing. 75 gms is my upper limit in carbs, but in the last month, the only time I ever came close to 75 grams was the night I had a potato - it was good and worth it. Normally I stay below 50 and on my "recheese" days (when I indulge my love of Whole Foods array of beautiful cheeses) I stay like below 20. Cheese days also of course bump up my fat intake.

    I'm glad I read this thread in that is shows (non-combatively which I really like) how flexible PB is and how we are all different. N=1.

    After all that, I do have a question if anyone knows. Intuitively, I would think that the tracking of prot/carb/fat, would be looked at on an averaging basis, but I wonder if that's wrong. Is it more important to keep the ratios fairly constant daily, or are big fluctuations ok as long as the averages over time are good for one's body type and goals?

    Thanx in advance for any information.

  4. #84
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    Thank you PAleobird- didn't mean to imply but thanks for the clarification

    I'm going to work on slowly increasing my fats and playing around with my protein levels

    I personally don't want to count calories(makes me a but neurotic) and brings back my binging and too much focus on my foods but at the same time I would like to drop 20 lbs

    Great thread everyone

    Jaime

  5. #85
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annlee View Post
    My n=1 -- I find I operate best (and that's important to me: I have a moderately high stress job, which currently is more like very high stress, with once again quite a bit of business travel) at 65-100 or maybe 105g protein per day.

    Stats: 5'1" (155cm), CW 137 (62kg), GW 110-115 (50-52kg)

    Dr. Kwasniewski's level for me (45-57g) leaves me dragging under the stress. But a Phinney/Volek 1.5-2.5g/kg* ideal weight (75-130g) seems to suit my needs.

    YMWV - Your Mileage Will Vary (from mine, and will probably vary over time)

    * in their first book - still going back through the second book for detail
    I think the rub in Dr. JK's formula is figuring what is the "ideal weight" in the first place. He says height in cm minus 100=ideal weight in kg. But that, for me looks way too high. If I went with that higher number however, it would give me some more protein to play with. Since all the calculations are based on that one number of "Ideal weight" the whole system can vary greatly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss Understood View Post
    I listened to a podcast by an expert on protein, I think his name was Layman, and he recommends 90 grams for most people, preferably divided over three meals.
    Perhaps you're thinking of Dr. Lyman who wrote "The Blood Sugar Solution"? He's not strictly primal but pretty close.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    I just recently upped my fat intake by 100 cal/per day by putting 1/2 a tblsp of butter in two of my cups of coffee (first and the 4pm one).

    Honestly, I don't see much of a difference in speed of weight loss with the extra fat, but I have fewer days where I want to eat before 7pm and that's a good thing. 75 gms is my upper limit in carbs, but in the last month, the only time I ever came close to 75 grams was the night I had a potato - it was good and worth it. Normally I stay below 50 and on my "recheese" days (when I indulge my love of Whole Foods array of beautiful cheeses) I stay like below 20. Cheese days also of course bump up my fat intake.
    Adding extra fat will not magically make you lose weight. Eating a higher *percentage* of your calories as fat will make you fuller sooner and longer thereby making calorie restriction easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by jmosery View Post
    Thank you PAleobird- didn't mean to imply but thanks for the clarification
    I'm going to work on slowly increasing my fats and playing around with my protein levels
    I personally don't want to count calories(makes me a but neurotic) and brings back my binging and too much focus on my foods but at the same time I would like to drop 20 lbs
    Great thread everyone
    Jaime
    No problem, Jaime. Welcome.

  6. #86
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    By that formula, I'm at my ideal weight almost exactly. Hmmm.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Current squat: 180 x 2. Current Deadlift: 230 x 2

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    By that formula, I'm at my ideal weight almost exactly. Hmmm.
    Hmm, indeed. That could be my ideal weight if I was lifting really heavy, I think. More realistically though, I think 10-15 lbs less would be ideal. Does Dr. JK have a certain fitness level intended with his ideal weight?
    50yo, 5'3"
    SW-195
    CW-125, part calorie counting, part transition to primal
    GW- Goals are no longer weight-related

  8. #88
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    By that formula, I'm at my ideal weight almost exactly. Hmmm.
    By that formula I'm already 20 pounds underweight. Perhaps the good Polish doctor of a generation ago liked his people a little plumper.

  9. #89
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    I'm sure this is in one of these threads somewhere... but I'm having a hard time finding ways to increase fat.

    I've tried keto before for about 2 weeks (last January) and it launched me into a 5 day bender of cookies, candy, bread... but I'm hoping it was because I really did low carb, lowish fat, high protein (maybe 20,40,40 or so).

    I've only been giving this a shot for 2 days but my dairy consumption has skyrocketed. Heavy cream in my coffee, sour cream with my braised cabbage, cheese (partly because its easy and tasty... ). I was beginning to feel like I was getting a little too into dairy and was going to cut back when I decided to give keto one more shot due to an upcoming occasion for which I'd like to look a little better in a certain dress.

    I'm at a loss for meals... I don't have access to high quality meats that aren't low fat to begin with (a friend raises chickens - so that is my one good meat option). I don't have free range bacon, sausage, etc. I do have good eggs - I guess I can start adding in 2 yolks to the 3 eggs I eat already...

    Here was my food for today - maybe some insights about tweaking this to cut down the dairy

    30 g heavy cream in coffee on the way to crossfit
    2 hr workout (this is a 1-2 per week thing when I do a specialty class and a WOD) + protein shake

    BF - 3 pastured eggs, 1 tbsp kerrygold, 90g sour cream with a small serving of braised cabbage (noon)

    snack - 30g coconut, 30 g macadamia nuts (3 PM)

    dinner - snacked on 3 oz cheddar (got too hungry by this point...), some roasted chicken with skin (I estimated 5 oz total, not sure), 1 oz crumbled blue cheese, 1 small carrot, 4 pieces of celery, over greens with balsamic vinaigrette (homemade - not super oily), 1 bowl of chicken broth (homemade - not fatty), 1/2 TJ 85% chocolate bar

    This gets me to 2400 kcals, 7% CHO, 70% F, 23% protein (137 grams though - partly due to a post WOD shake)

    I don't like coconut oil and the way it flavors foods. And I think coconut butter gives me a touch of heart burn. I love cheese and I seem to be ok on dairy, but really I had like 10 oz of dairy today... that seems like a lot! Maybe I'm being stupid but I'm hesitant to start eating more grocery store high fat meat (pork, steaks, etc) because I always hear that the "fat has the bad stuff"... Am I destined to just start adding browned butter to all my food (which might be ok !)

    Are there any food bloggers out there doing this kind of ketosis?

    Thanks

  10. #90
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    You can make things with olive oil that are pretty good, like pestos and tapenades and things like that. You can make pate. You can slip bone marrow or tallow into things. I slipped some marrow fat into my mashed cauliflower last night. I also added an avocado. It was so rich I kinda made myself sick. You can eat marrow as-is, too.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Current squat: 180 x 2. Current Deadlift: 230 x 2

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