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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopintos View Post
    Forgive my ignorance, I have been thinking about this on and off. And I still can't wrap my brain around limiting protein. Maybe it is because I am already in a decent range that I can't imagine cutting it lower? Or maybe I am thinking too much CW still? I just always thought that the protein helped spare muscle loss. Protein w/fat is the one thing that satiates me the longest, so I eat less over all.

    I just looked over my last month, and I am anywhere from 55 and yesterday was my highest of 128. But normally I am 60-95, with the majority being 75 - 85 days. If anything, I thought it wouldn't hurt to have a little more protein, especially on some of those lower days.

    Geesh now I am getting hungry, hungry for steak.

    I just looked at a few of my numbers again, looks like in the range of 50% fat, 20% carbs, 30% protein. Give or take on any of these in any direction on any given day. I just sort of rounded it. Sometimes my carbs and proteins are reversed.
    The whole idea to limiting protein is to stay in ketosis. I will stay in ketosis regardless of weight loss. I FEEL good here. I think that is the point of nutritional ketosis, not weightloss, but health and well being.

    Weight loss is cutting back calories from the amount of calories that maintain you and the numbers you have work for you so keep your steak!! lol
    Never give up on anything you can't go a day without thinking about - Tony Horton

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrissyTibby View Post
    The whole idea to limiting protein is to stay in ketosis.
    I learn something new every day. I just always thought it was all about the carbs to be in Ketosis. I figure I havent been there since June because I upped my carbs a bit, but still within the weight loss range. I went back to look at those numbers, and I thought to be in Keto you lower carbs, and it looks like when I go lower carbs, my protein and fat numbers go up. Both in grams and percentages. Those numbers are more like in the 90's for protein grams, and breaks down to about 65% fat, 10% carbs, 25% protein.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopintos View Post
    I learn something new every day. I just always thought it was all about the carbs to be in Ketosis. I figure I havent been there since June because I upped my carbs a bit, but still within the weight loss range. I went back to look at those numbers, and I thought to be in Keto you lower carbs, and it looks like when I go lower carbs, my protein and fat numbers go up. Both in grams and percentages. Those numbers are more like in the 90's for protein grams, and breaks down to about 65% fat, 10% carbs, 25% protein.
    I have been that high in protein, but my total percentages were still in the 70-80 percent fat range. You could have been in ketosis that day.
    Never give up on anything you can't go a day without thinking about - Tony Horton

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrissyTibby View Post
    I have been that high in protein, but my total percentages were still in the 70-80 percent fat range. You could have been in ketosis that day.
    You may wanna check out their newest post here The Ketogenic Diet for Health . It seems that when in ketosis sufficient protein will produce sufficient necessary glucose via GNG, but excess protein does not necessarily automatically processed into glucose like many of us have thought (me included).

    "In brief

    * Gluconeogenesis is a slow process and the rate doesn't change much even under a wide range of conditions.
    * The hypothesis that the rate of gluconeogenesis is primarily regulated by the amount of available material, e.g. amino acids, has not been supported by experiment. Having insufficient material available for gluconeogenesis will obviously limit the rate, but in the experiments we reviewed, having excess material did not increase the rate.
    * We haven't found any solid evidence to support the idea that excess protein is turned into glucose.
    * More experiments are needed to confirm that this still holds true in keto dieters."

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    You may wanna check out their newest post here The Ketogenic Diet for Health . It seems that when in ketosis sufficient protein will produce sufficient necessary glucose via GNG, but excess protein does not necessarily automatically processed into glucose like many of us have thought (me included).

    "In brief

    * Gluconeogenesis is a slow process and the rate doesn't change much even under a wide range of conditions.
    * The hypothesis that the rate of gluconeogenesis is primarily regulated by the amount of available material, e.g. amino acids, has not been supported by experiment. Having insufficient material available for gluconeogenesis will obviously limit the rate, but in the experiments we reviewed, having excess material did not increase the rate.
    * We haven't found any solid evidence to support the idea that excess protein is turned into glucose.
    * More experiments are needed to confirm that this still holds true in keto dieters."
    I read through all of that a few weeks ago. Great site they have started.

    My experience on low carb and higher protein levels (say 1g per pound of body weight) is not getting to a ketoadapted state. I pretty much felt like shit.

    Like I said as long as my percentages have been around 75-80 percent coupled with a higher day of say 90-100 protein when my calories were pretty high I have still been reading 2.8-3.8 in blood ketones. I just have to bump down calories which will mean bumping my protein down to keep with percentages and I think I will be golden!!
    Never give up on anything you can't go a day without thinking about - Tony Horton

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    You may wanna check out their newest post here The Ketogenic Diet for Health . It seems that when in ketosis sufficient protein will produce sufficient necessary glucose via GNG, but excess protein does not necessarily automatically processed into glucose like many of us have thought (me included).

    "In brief

    * Gluconeogenesis is a slow process and the rate doesn't change much even under a wide range of conditions.
    * The hypothesis that the rate of gluconeogenesis is primarily regulated by the amount of available material, e.g. amino acids, has not been supported by experiment. Having insufficient material available for gluconeogenesis will obviously limit the rate, but in the experiments we reviewed, having excess material did not increase the rate.
    * We haven't found any solid evidence to support the idea that excess protein is turned into glucose.
    * More experiments are needed to confirm that this still holds true in keto dieters."
    I read that just yesterday I think it was, for some reason, not even sure now why, where, when or how, but I remember seeing it but it doesn't always make a connection for me until someone points it out

    Oh duh, cuz you posted it and I read it but then got sidetracked.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrissyTibby View Post
    My experience on low carb and higher protein levels (say 1g per pound of body weight) is not getting to a ketoadapted state. I pretty much felt like shit.

    I am still trying to get in tune with all that stuff. If I eat this, it does this and I feel like that. I am not there yet. I need to pay more attention to the "how I feel" part. I am mostly focused on the weight loss part of how eating certain things affect me. I am starting to get fairly good at that. Now I guess need to pay more attention to how I actually feel and function. I just know that overall, from a year ago, I am nowhere close to being the same person.
    65lbs gone and counting!!

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  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by gopintos View Post
    I am still trying to get in tune with all that stuff. If I eat this, it does this and I feel like that. I am not there yet. I need to pay more attention to the "how I feel" part. I am mostly focused on the weight loss part of how eating certain things affect me. I am starting to get fairly good at that. Now I guess need to pay more attention to how I actually feel and function. I just know that overall, from a year ago, I am nowhere close to being the same person.
    You sound just like me. I've mentioned in many threads here how I'm a recovering Calorie-counter and regimented "eat every 2-3 hours" eater. (In my journal - linked in my signature - I talk about this in detail.) As a result, I lost my hunger cues and have been spending the past year or so teaching myself how to listen to my body. As a result, I only eat twice a day (sometimes 3) because that's how my body feels. What I'm still struggling with is all of the nutrient stuff - macro and micro, so it seems - that have been mentioned in this thread. Currently I consume a LOT of protein (still about 20 more g of fat than protein) and I wonder if that's why I am struggling with stubborn belly and thigh fat despite being very low carb (rarely over 50g).

    Food for thought! (Pun totally intended.)
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrissyTibby View Post
    I read through all of that a few weeks ago. Great site they have started.

    My experience on low carb and higher protein levels (say 1g per pound of body weight) is not getting to a ketoadapted state. I pretty much felt like shit.

    Like I said as long as my percentages have been around 75-80 percent coupled with a higher day of say 90-100 protein when my calories were pretty high I have still been reading 2.8-3.8 in blood ketones. I just have to bump down calories which will mean bumping my protein down to keep with percentages and I think I will be golden!!
    N=1 trumps all . But, yeah I'm a 160lb male at 12-15% bodyfat and I still only eat 90-120g of protein in a day. Not saying that I don't go above that on lift days for instance, but on average I feel best in that range. Doing 160g/day (1g/pound for me) has never been sustainable for me without protein drinks and the like.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by alg2435 View Post
    Paleobird, I think I'd like to try this 'limited protein' thing. Can you give me an example of what 45-60 grams of protein would look like (because my ideal weigh is 115-120 lbs)?
    It depends on the protein source. Plug a few things in to SparkPeople or Chron-o-Meter or Fitday and find out what quantity is involved, e.g. 8oz of flank steak is going to have a lot more protein than 8oz of a fattier cut.

    Quote Originally Posted by tomi View Post
    Paleobird........... I was just going to up my carbs since I've been around the 50 mark for many months and not losing -- but I think you're balance of macros makes more sense. Maybe its not the carbs being too low - maybe its the protein being too high! My macros normally look something like 20% carbs 40% fats and 40% proteins. Give or take 5% on the fats and proteins. I do have my rare days of going up to 40% on the carbs - but thats maybe once a month at best. I'm also hypothyroid and on Armour -- so I might need to explore that a bit. Although my doctor is a paleo advocate - she has never mentioned carbs effecting thyroid function. I see her in a few weeks and I'll bring up that topic for discussion. If I use your formula I should be at around 60 grams of protein 90 grams fat and 30 grams carbs. I'm 5'3 (barely), and my goal weight is 135. Any lower than that is too thin for me. When the hip bones start jutting out its time to maintain. So I'll give this a try for a couple months and see what happens. thanks..........!!!
    When it comes to thyroid issues, talk to your doctor first before doing anything drastic. I am not an expert but I have heard that ketosis effects hypothyroid people differently.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrissyTibby View Post
    The whole idea to limiting protein is to stay in ketosis. I will stay in ketosis regardless of weight loss. I FEEL good here. I think that is the point of nutritional ketosis, not weightloss, but health and well being.

    Weight loss is cutting back calories from the amount of calories that maintain you and the numbers you have work for you so keep your steak!! lol
    Yes, it's just so much easier to limit calories when you are in ketosis. So it can work for weight loss and then continue to work for wellbeing (which is what I'm doing now with it, working on epilepsy control with less medication).

    Quote Originally Posted by CrissyTibby View Post
    I read through all of that a few weeks ago. Great site they have started.
    My experience on low carb and higher protein levels (say 1g per pound of body weight) is not getting to a ketoadapted state. I pretty much felt like shit.

    Like I said as long as my percentages have been around 75-80 percent coupled with a higher day of say 90-100 protein when my calories were pretty high I have still been reading 2.8-3.8 in blood ketones. I just have to bump down calories which will mean bumping my protein down to keep with percentages and I think I will be golden!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    N=1 trumps all . But, yeah I'm a 160lb male at 12-15% bodyfat and I still only eat 90-120g of protein in a day. Not saying that I don't go above that on lift days for instance, but on average I feel best in that range. Doing 160g/day (1g/pound for me) has never been sustainable for me without protein drinks and the like.
    I wonder if there is a gender and/or age breakdown in how fast the gluconeogenesis happens. Interesting article. Thanks, Neckhammer.

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