My High Carb Workout Experiment page 2

[Neckhammer]

Oh, and I'm really not trying to start a carb war . Not interested in all, but I think the biggest disconnect is in what type of physical activity people do, for how long, at what intensity, at what frequency, and what stage of health/metabolic state are they in.

[Lukey]

Have you watched this video?

Fuel for Muscle Contrations gone over by Dr. Gregory Ellis - YouTube

Dr Greg Ellis talks about the use of fatty acids instead of glycogen. He knows A LOT about this, but i myself am struggling to find more about this topic. Take a look at my thread in the primal nutrition part of the forum where some people have given their experiences. Hopefully we can get some more info on this topic as i would really like to know more!

[StackingPlates]

Oh, and I'm really not trying to start a carb war

I had >500g of CHOs today and feel like a champ but am I going to die from that there insulin overdose?

[Neckhammer]

I had >500g of CHOs today and feel like a champ but am I going to die from that there insulin overdose?

Yes...get your affairs in order.

[StackingPlates]

[JackieKessler]

I wound up having a very high carb meal for...linner? Lunch at 4 pm. It was butternut squash with a head of garlic, 1/2 lb diced chicken, 1/8 cup tomato sauce, 1/4 cup coconut milk, 1/2 onion, basil, parsley, salt & pepper. I had no idea the squash would be such a carb load. It was fabulous. And afterward, I felt like I could run a marathon. Three hours later, I walked a mile and did my taekwondo class, which was a high-energy class -- and I had a terrific time. My kicks were higher, my stretches were stretchier, and I felt stronger than I have in a while. Maybe it was because of the 80+ grams of carbs I had three hours earlier. Maybe not. But I felt (and feel) terrific. (Today will be a <150 g carb day. Rah!)

[Omni]

Have you watched this video?

Fuel for Muscle Contrations gone over by Dr. Gregory Ellis - YouTube

Dr Greg Ellis talks about the use of fatty acids instead of glycogen. He knows A LOT about this, but i myself am struggling to find more about this topic. Take a look at my thread in the primal nutrition part of the forum where some people have given their experiences. Hopefully we can get some more info on this topic as i would really like to know more!

I think what you are refering to is Intramuscular Triglcerides (IMTG), I started a thread recently, but had no bites, there are some posted links I found, here's the thread:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread64295.html

I did a search here and found no references to it, both on the forum or MDA.
I've only started reading about it, it is something that happens naturally when you do endurance training, particularly when fasted or on fat biased diet.
Basically on a relatively fit "fat burner" our fuel sources change as we ramp up exercise, so:
At rest or light exercise the majority of our metabolism runs on fatty acids in the blood serum and these are gradually replenished from adipose tissue, there is a small contribution from muscle glycogen and IMTG.
As exercise ramps up to around 65%VO2max there is a major shift in the fat burning source with serum fatty acids contributing less and a massive increase from IMTG, there is also an increase in muscle glycogen being utilised as well, this is the level that endurance atheletes are at, maintaining a high steady output for more than 2 hours.
Once the level ramps up to 85%VO2max then fatty acids from serum are pretty much stopped, IMTG use levels out and decreases somewhat and Glycogen really becomes the prime fuel.

So IMTG is a bit like the Fat equivelent of Glycogen and once we get into that endurance level I imagine it must utilize too much oxygen to release fatty acids from Adipose tissue and IMTG is preferred as it is already present in the muscle fibres where it is required. As exercise level falls back and oxygen is more freely available, then fatty acids from adipose tissue are released again and they start to fuel the bodies processes as well as restocking IMTG stores in the muscle fibres.
The use of MCT oil in endurance events supplies a substrate that can be directly utilized in the muscle fibres in the same way as glucose drinks, so maybe a sweet oil emulsion can supply both?
The different muscle fibres have different roles, some have greater IMTG ability, some have greater Glycogen abilities, so maximising both sides should maximise performance as well.
I still need to do a lot more reading to get my head around it all better, but most of the research in this is quite recent, but very relevant to what people here are interested in.

[For_Sparta]

I do not believe our primal ancestors did lifting near the weight and volume that a weight lifter in a gym does. Maybe dragging a carcass around, lifting some logs, but in general when I count up how much reps and sets and overall weight I do, I think what I'm doing is a very unnatural activity for the human body. In general, I believe most gym rats like myself are carrying a great amount of superfluous muscle mass. It's mainly a vanity thing, to accomodate the decidedly unprimal activity of being engrossed by what one sees in their reflection. A reflection visible outside of that produced by a rippled pond is what, 300 years old? Clear mirrors are how old? Looking at ourselves daily, hourly even, is pretty unnatural in human history. With the mental abuse that comes from high school, and the modern overemphasis on our reflection, it has created (in my mind) this strange circumstance of looking at ourselves in a mirror and moving a weight up and down in order to improve what we see in that mirror.

I look around the gym sometimes and laugh at how hilariously impractical what we're all doing is. I may be wrong. Haha.

I have nothing to add to the scientific side of the debate, but had to give a +1 to this.... surely it's a modern form of insanity to check out one's guns in the mirror half a dozen times a day, or to spend hours upon hours researching nutrition and lifting techniques for the sole purpose of developing mass that we literally have zero practical use for. As much as I enjoy the psychological challenge of setting/breaking new records in the gym - there are many times I've second-guessed whether there was something more I could be doing with those ~6hrs/week of my life. In fact I'm almost hoping, perhaps inappropriately, to one day come across a car on its roof/on fire/occupants inside, just to prove to myself that my leet squat/deadlift PRs have some utility!

[counterpuncher]

I don't feel that there's anything wrong with eating carbs to fuel intense workouts, and for a recovery meal afterwards.
What works for me is having most of my carbs around my workouts and keeping them relatively low in meals that aren't around a workout.
I feel that I benefit from both approaches.

[zilog]

or to spend hours upon hours researching nutrition and lifting techniques for the sole purpose of developing mass that we literally have zero practical use for

Speak for yourself! I lift to get stronger so I can better enjoy my sport/recreational activities (principally cycling) but it also helps when I'm loading/unloading heavy things at work. There are many other benefits too: improved cardiovascular function, posture, bone density, no back/knee problems, etc. not to mention metabolic benefits such as insulin sensitivity.

There's a lot more to lifting than just "big guns"! As you said, it's hardly primal but I think that just shows how ridiculous the constant WWGD? attitude is anyway.