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Thread: You can use fat for high intensity exercise? page 4

  1. #31
    Lukey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    Training 24 hours fasted is ridiculous for performance. I hate to say it but this sounds more like working out for looks than for performance. No person truly looking for performance gains would train on such fasts.
    I'm not training out 24 hours fasted, by fasted i mean not having eaten before hand eg. In the morning.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Mayo View Post
    That would be a bad idea. Your body replenishes glycogen at a rate of about 3% an hour, with full replenishment about 36 hours later. Of course, that data comes from an average joe who is not keto-adapted so the numbers may be a little different but that's all the data we have. I would tinker with it individually as you may not need as many carbs as you may think. Your liver stores 100g but your muscles can store about 500g. Your body will fight to restore the muscle glycogen in the higher intensity fibers first even if you are doing some form of passive recovery. This will either come from lactate being recycled in to glucose by the liver or directly from liver glycogen stores. So, if you have full liver glycogen stores to begin with it should cover a chunk of what you burn. The easiest way to figure out how many g of glucose you burned would be to wear a heart rate monitor during your session and subtracting the calories burned from fat from the total calories burned and divide it by 4 to get a guesstimate of how many g of carbs you should consume over the next 36 hours. You are way better off taking the carbs over a longer period of time to prevent a large insulin spike. You should be fairly insulin sensitive post-workout so it shouldn't require a ton of carbs anyway.
    Why would that be a bad idea? I'm not going to be training the same area more than once a week so there is plenty of time to restore glyocgen. And even then i'm not going to train everday, probably 3-4 times a week when summer ends

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by George View Post
    Training 24 hours fasted is ridiculous for performance. I hate to say it but this sounds more like working out for looks than for performance. No person truly looking for performance gains would train on such fasts.
    Ever meet a wrestler? A boxer? MMA fighter? Anybody that has to train and make weight for a bout? Guess not.

    And there are plenty of health reasons to consider fasted training in terms of metabolic conditioning.

    For performance......ever hear of train low, compete high?
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 08-23-2012 at 10:22 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Ever meet a wrestler? A boxer? MMA fighter? Anybody that has to train and make weight for a bout? Guess not.
    Exactly i agree, i'm far more energized when i'm fasted than not. As long as you get your calories in after the workout it's arguably even better for performance as working out fasted increases hgh and boosts recovery.

  5. #35
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    I have been on VLC for 5 weeks and have been increasing my workout intensities little by little. I consume very little carbs - only in fruit and 90% cacao chocolate every once in a while... maybe a little whole greek yogurt...

    My energy levels have never been higher during high intensity workouts like Sprints x8, 1.5 hours of MMA (same day), 45 minutes of blacktop basketball, Essential Movements Strength. On top of that I'm seeing noticeable gains in coordination, speed, power, and explosiveness. My energy levels throughout the day while at rest are also high and level.

    If I'm doing a two-a-day I'll chug a mouthful of olive oil a 1/2 hour before hand and maybe anapple right before I hit the focus mits. The only thing I have noticed is i sweat like crazy.
    SW (207lbs) 8/1/2012
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    Primal Since 8/1/2102

    Bike commute to work 20 miles/day ~ rain, shine, or snow.

  6. #36
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    Awesome, your body must definately be adapted to using fat for high intensity excersice if you have been vlc for 5 weeks at that training intensity

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsa23 View Post
    In short, no. True high-intensity efforts will always require glycogen. However:

    1. A high-intensity effort, by its nature, will not be maintained for a very long time(and hence, the total glycogen burn isn't anything obscene)
    2. Given the moderate muscular consumption of glycogen, you don't necessarily need huge amounts of carbs to fuel this.

    Skeletal striated muscle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Max intensity effort requires you to use your type 2 muscle fibers on top of your type 1. Generally what's going to happen when you train, is that you can strengthen your type 1 fibers, enhancing their maximum output, thus enhancing their ability to burn fat - and you can work at a higher rate before getting into the effort level that requires your type 2 fibers and requisite glycogen burning. But when you go beyond the capability of your type 1 fibers, you will start burning glycogen with your type 2 fibers.

    There's more to it than that - but the short version of it is that your body will never stop requiring glycogen for intense efforts - but unless you're doing something like trying for a personal record in a 10k or the like, you're not likely to burn through enough glycogen for it to be a major problem, even on a diet that doesn't have huge amounts of carbs.
    This.

    I have been experimenting with this however. I have a job that can require intense energy (firie) and I find going VLC doesn't affect performance, sprints up stairs, heavy lifting etc, in fact I think it is easier after you have switched to fat burning.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lukey View Post
    Why would that be a bad idea? I'm not going to be training the same area more than once a week so there is plenty of time to restore glyocgen. And even then i'm not going to train everday, probably 3-4 times a week when summer ends
    Because you won't replenish glycogen in that 3-4 hour period where you would absorb that carbohydrate. It would then cause an increase in blood glucose followed by a significant insulin response and be converted to fat. The issue here isn't that you are converting it to fat because you will probably burn it. The problem is you would convert it to fat which cannot be converted back to glucose. IMO, this would probably lead to under-recovery. You definitely wouldn't improve glycogen uptake to any significant extent by doing this. If you have fairly full liver glycogen stores beforehand they would probably be responsible for replenishing those higher threshold motor units, you would just be replenishing liver glycogen. Actually, if you were going to do it, I would do it about 45 minutes to an hour before exercise rather than after and I'd cut the amount in half. That way you are sure that your liver glycogen will be full which will top off the higher threshold units. IN theory this should improve your performance as well.

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