Dr Ron Rosedale reviews his AHS2012 presentation page

[Moochy]

Here is the article. He refers to George F. Cahill Jr, diabetes expert who just passed away a few days ago.

Apparently there was quite a disagreement again this year between the safe carbers vs low carbers of the paleo world. Many, but not all of the safe carb advocates, appear to be forming their opinion from published papers. Many of the low carb advocates seem to be clinicians treating people...who would you side with?

[sbhikes]

Being someone who was well on their way to needing a clinician eventually, I'd have to go with the clinicians. Also the low-carb ultra marathon runners are seeing some benefits that I would like to have for my own activities. I don't find the micromanaging of macros that body-builders employ to be particularly appealing or useful to the lifestyle that I lead.

[Winterbike]

I was there, and Rosedale gave a very very strong douchebag vibe. Strong enough that I skipped his other presentation. The guy just seemed full of himself. His position basically was ''any amount of glucose WILL KILL YOU!!!!!!!!'' while Chris Kresser's position was ''well, according to studies, we could reasonably assume that some starches seem safe''.

Kresser and the other dude agreeing with him were very humble and moderate with their opinions, and I have no trouble imagining them admitting they were wrong if someone presented them valid info. That's the kind of people I want information from. Rosedale seemed like a cultist with no flexibility in his way of thinking, and it was a huge turn-off for me. I don't plan on checking any of his stuff.

[Paleobird]

Well I don't know about his in person "vibe" being all that important. I read the link and I like what he has to say. I like the fact also that he has been standing up against the CW mantras about evil fat etc for decades.

While I know that many people love their safe starches, in my n=1 there is no such thing as a safe starch.

[Moochy]

I am a person who damaged their metabolism through 50 years of the SAD diet. I can only control my blood sugar by limiting carb consumption to between 30 to 50 or so carbs per day.

[FlyingPig]

I found this thread after watching the presentation, which is now online at Ron Rosedale, M.D.—The Deeper Roots of Health and Diet as Told by Our Ancestor’s Ancestors on Vimeo

I liked this one more than the safe starches debate, where indeed he comes over very cocky.

I'm still on the fence. I do eat potatoes occasionally and intend to keep doing so. I'm still pretty low carb, all in all, but the starches do make a difference in perfomance when swinging kettlebells, in my experience.

[Lewis]

Apparently there was quite a disagreement again this year between the safe carbers vs low carbers of the paleo world.

Isn't there always?

Many, but not all of the safe carb advocates, appear to be forming their opinion from published papers. Many of the low carb advocates seem to be clinicians treating people...who would you side with?

I don't know about "side" ...

What I do think is that think these are, as Holmes says somewhere, "very deep waters".

I also think that if one sets up a simple dichotomy --

Dr. Rosedale >>>> over here

<<<<<<<<< Carbohydrate defenders over there

One gets a skewed view of things. Dr. Rosedale's view is quite idiosyncratic. I'll give an example of how that is.

So I haven't had a chance to catch up on what Jack Kruse is currently saying, but the last I heard he was saying that there is no biological need for exogenous glucose (and, presumably, that anyone that doesn't understand that hasn't got his facts straight). That's just how our bodies work. However, I think Kruse sees nothing particularly problematic about eating carbohydrate ... at least when it's around in nature -- the "seasonality" idea that you also find in Lights Out. Kruse is also sceptical of the Rosedale's ... I don't know what to call it ... "anti-thermogenic" stance.

Rosedale is heavily invested in this. Look at the article by him on the "Me and My Diabetes" site. But I don't really know that he's got much concrete there. It seems to me -- though who am I to judge? -- to be mostly assumption and a few metaphors about cars and how you don't want your engine to run hot. Well, fine, but I'm not a car and I don't think we can really deduce anything from a metaphor.

I think Dr. Kruse would also ask: Don't people need to run hot in winter? Dr. Rosedale seems to be assuming a modern lifestyle with central heating, automobiles, and tailored clothing without realizing that he is.

Rosedale seems also deeply interested in, and impressed by, animal experiments that suggest that calorie restriction can extend life. And as an extension of that i think he's speculating that calorie-restriction may actually be unrecognized carbohydrate-restriction. Again, well and good but ... the last I heard calorie restriction, while it worked in lower animals, seemed not to be working in monkeys. (Sorry, I know there should be a reference here: I hate it myself when people make statements but don't reference them, but I'm busy and tired and google should help anyone who's curious with that.) So, anyway, Want to hang your hat on that one? I wouldn't.

Rosedale is also interested in protein-restriction and this goes along with a certain understanding of mTOR. Here is somewhere else where Dr. Kruse would part company with him. And he wouldn't be the only one. I'm pretty sure you'll find comments on Rob Wolf podcasts (and, no, I'm not going to give him his own special spelling .. and I thought only girls had special spellings for names) as to one aging researcher finding that high-protein diets may be helpful for human longevity.

I've wandered far from the point by now.


Low carb?

I think there is ample evidence for the effectiveness of low-carb diets. Here's an interesting recent tweet that turned up in Dr. Eades twitter stream:

Cut fat article has 1.6kg loss at 6 mths. Effect of reducing total fat intake on body weight: systematic review and meta-analysis of randomised controlled trials and cohort studies | BMJ … Cut carbs article has 11.4kg loss at 6 mths Nutrition & Metabolism | Full text | Effects of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) on exercise performance and body composition across varying levels of age, sex, and training experience: A review

https://twitter.com/zoeharcombe/stat...79287025209344

I think it takes a very closed mind and a determination not to rock the boat of the current ideology to ignore that kind of thing. I think people like Dr. Eades or the Caveman Doctor could probably provide more evidence in barrow-loads.

In fine, I think it takes someone who's determined on an ideology rather than evidence to keep preaching high-carb these days. that won't fly. Low-carb should be the default. But I wouldn't swallow Dr. Rosedale's position hook, line, and sinker. There's a lot we don't know. And, heck, people can probably do all right on a fairly high-carb diet just so long as it's all real food and the other foods in the diet are rich enough in minerals and fat-soluble vitamins. See here, for example:

Nutrition and Physical Degeneration: Chapter 3

But I think that kind of diet probably gets more problematic in modern civilization with lack of sleep, light pollution, modern hybrid wheat and disruption of gut flora through antibiotics and so on.

So I think most people are probably going to do best on a fairly low-carb version of paleo -- "primal" or what the Caveman Doctor would recommend, or something of the sort.