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  1. #11
    Moochy's Avatar
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piscator View Post
    I'm just not a big fan of soy, but wheat is definitely the #1 baddie for me. I still indulge in bread or pizza on occasion and I'm always sorry for it the next day.
    The fact that you can immediately feel the effects of wheat but can't feel the effects of soy is another reason why soy is worse.
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  3. #13
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    I will say that wheat is not the #1 baddie for me. It's more like the #1 baddie for whomever decides to stand behind me after I eat it.
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piscator View Post
    I think most of the claims made by WAPF are what JamesS would counter. He's alluded to that in the iodine thread. Reading WAPF was what led to me finding MDA - don't remember if there was a link there, but somehow I found MDA. Anyway, I've followed much of what they promote, but I'm looking forward to reading some rebuttal of that data when and if JamesS weighs in.
    Iodine thread, post 606:
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...d63393-61.html

    Some of the Links James posted regarding the Mercola Soy Rebuttal

    I had a bit of a look through, but it was late, I too would like to see more discussion on the Soy topic.
    For me the main issue is the GM product & pesticide contamination and along with that if it is high enough in phytoestrogens to be considered therapeutic in some cases, then it should be treated as dangerous in others.
    Also being a legume it goes in the 20% portion of which total legumes comprise less than 5% for me, so there isn't much room for Soy anyway.
    Last edited by Omni; 08-19-2012 at 05:27 PM.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piscator View Post
    Posting this here as a new thread so as not to interrupt the current iodine thread. The soy issue has come up on a couple of posts on that thread between Paleobird and JamesS. JamesS claims to have debunked those who are anti-soy, and if he cares to spend time on this topic, I'm certainly willing to read his take. But first, I'll tell why I don't eat soy. I think my reasons are probably shared by many on this forum.

    I claim no science background and haven't spend endless hours pouring over medical studies. I was inspired to give up grains by reading The Primal Bluepring, MDA website and forum, and my own successes with doing so.

    Soy is a grain and typical of grains is high in Omega 6 fatty acids, which increases the Omega 6 to Omega 3 ratio in the body. Within 2 weeks of following the Primal Blueprint, I was able to completely eliminate my need for asthma medications and have been med-free for 2.5 years. I credit eliminating grains (among other diet changes) and occasional supplementing with fish oil to balance my omega ratio.

    Here's a short paragraph from wikipedia on Omega-6 fatty acids, which backs my thinking: "Modern Western diets typically have ratios of n−6 to n−3 in excess of 10 to 1, some as high as 30 to 1; the average ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 in the Western diet is 15/1–16.7/1.[6] Humans are thought to have evolved with a diet of a 1-to-1 ratio of omega 6 to omega 3 and the optimal ratio is thought to be 4 to 1 or lower.[7][6] A ratio of 2–3/1 omega 6 to omega 3 helped reduce inflammation in patients with rheumatoid arthritis.[6] A ratio of 5/1 had a beneficial effect on patients with asthma but a 10/1 ratio had a negative effect.[6] A ratio of 2.5/1 reduced rectal cell proliferation in patients with colorectal cancer, whereas a ratio of 4/1 had no effect.[6]"

    The other benefit to giving up soy (along with all grains), is that it's an easy means of cutting carbohydrates. Many of us here have also battled weight issues. I'm down 30 pounds from my peak weight just before starting PB. I never ate much soy prior anyway, so it was much easier to eliminate it than it was to give up wheat - yep, I still miss bread and pie.

    That's my reasoning JamesS.
    Seems to me from what I have seen the primal diet is rich in meats. Most meats are rich in the pro-inflammatory omega 6 fatty acid arachidonic acid (AA).

    And this brings up another point. Omega 6 fatty acids serve useful purposes, and are not all dangerous. For example, AA is a pro-inflammatory omega 6 fatty acid while dihomo gamma linolenic acid (DGLA), derived from linoleic acid, is also an omega 6 fatty with anti-inflammatory properties. Although DGLA can convert in to AA.

    Another thing that has to be kept in mind is that isolated compounds do not have the same properties as whole foods. Anti-inflammatory DGLA may convert in to inflammatory AA, but these are not the only compounds in soy that play a role in inflammatory responses. Soy also contains anti-inflammatory sterols.

    You also mentioned that you are supplementing fish oil to balance out your omega 3 to 6 ratio. First of all why would you have to do that in the first place if your diet alone had a proper omega 3 to 6 ratio? Could it be to balance out all the inflammatory omega 6 fatty acids from the meat in your diet? This also brings up the point that humans do not consume one food, we consume a variety of foods. Soy may be high in linoleic acid, but again this can can convert in to both anti-inflammatory and inflammatory compounds. But this would only be an issue if all the person ate was soy. Just like if all someone ate was beef they are going to cause all sorts of problems including heart disease since beef is so high in the inflammatory omega 6 fatty acid AA. Since we eat varied diets though we can consume other compounds that keep the AA acid in check, or the resulting inflammation from AA.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piscator View Post
    I think most of the claims made by WAPF are what JamesS would counter. He's alluded to that in the iodine thread. Reading WAPF was what led to me finding MDA - don't remember if there was a link there, but somehow I found MDA. Anyway, I've followed much of what they promote, but I'm looking forward to reading some rebuttal of that data when and if JamesS weighs in.
    I have addressed the bogus claims repeated by the Weston Price Foundation (WAPF) a number of times. What people need to realize is that they are funded by the beef and dairy industries and act as spokespeople for WAPF. This is like relying on pharmaceutical drug reps to get valid safety information on drugs sold by the pharmaceutical companies.

    Here are some of the rebuttals I have written in the past:

    Weston Price Foundatoin's links to beef and dairy industries

    Weston Price soy myths debunked

    And since Mercola is now on the payroll of WAPF:

    Addressing Mercola's anti-soy propaganda

    I am not the only one that has called Mercola and WAPF on their bogus soy claims:

    Mercola, Weston Price wrong on Soy "dangers"

    If people want to stop generalizing about soy supposedly being dangerous and want to state specifically what they think is dangerous I will address those claims.

  7. #17
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    "Dr. Kaayla Daniel, aka “The Naughty Nutritionist.” A firm supporter of the work promoted by The Weston A. Price Foundation"

    That's enough right there to reduce Dr. Daniel's credibility to near zero. If she is such a firm supporter of WAPF then she is likely just parroting the same old debunked claims WPF has made about soy.

    If you have anything specifically though that you think she has correct bring it up and I will address it.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    The fact that you can immediately feel the effects of wheat but can't feel the effects of soy is another reason why soy is worse.
    People can have adverse effects to anything. People have developed heart disease, osteoporosis, hypothyroidism and numerous other adverse effects from eating beef and dairy. People can also have problems with the lactose in milk. Milk and eggs are also very common allergens. The list can go on and on of things in common foods people can have bad reactions to. This does not make the food inherently dangerous or bad for everyone. If someone has an allergic reaction to chicken does that make chicken evil and therefore should be avoided by everyone?

  9. #19
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    Simple, even if I Haven't done a thorough study: Soy = promotes estrogen growth = shown to cause breast cancer = no soy for me

  10. #20
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    In to see other responses.

    Personally, it's a legume, so I avoid it. Regardless of where WAPF gets their funding, the issues they raise are concerning.

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