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  1. #91
    cori93437's Avatar
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    Soy sauce and tamari... I get the real deal fermented stuff. Don't use it often...
    Miso paste... fermented. Don't use it often... but I will ALWAYS use it. ALWAYS! It tastes like comfort and home in a way that I can't even begin to explain... in a way that nothing else does. And I'm a white girl from TN who didn't taste it until I was like 20!
    Tofu- silken has a place in miso soup on occasion if I'm in a restaurant... most of the time I replace it with poached cod fish loin if I'm at home.

    Edamame... yeah, I eat them sometimes, maybe once or twice a year they end up on a plate of mine in a Japanese restaurant... it's a whole food. Not a big deal. They are kind of bland, I don't go out of my way to eat them.

    All other modern processed soy products taste like BUTT... and that's why I don't eat them.
    Soy protein powder tastes like poison. GAG!
    Last edited by cori93437; 08-21-2012 at 01:27 PM.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
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    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by cori93437 View Post
    Soy sauce and tamari... I get the real deal fermented stuff. Don't use it often...
    Miso paste... fermented. Don't use it often... but I will ALWAYS use it. ALWAYS! It tastes like comfort and home in a way that I can't even begin to explain... in a way that nothing else does. And I'm a white girl from TN who didn't taste it until I was like 20!
    Yup and yup. I meant the real stuff, re: soy sauce -- not the crap with caramel color in it.

    And miso paste is like anchovy filets. A little bit brings a hit of musky umami that is hard to replace.

    Have you heard of this stuff?

    Doenjang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I get it when I go to Korean restaurants. My god. On meat? So delicious. It makes me sad that it's starting to be made with wheat. Stop ruining things, wheat!

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Other than edamame, I don't see how any soy products qualify as whole real foods, what Primal is supposed to be about. Even Mark says he eats some edamame occasionally and now and then has some fermented soy products such as tempeh. I think each person has to make their own judgement call about this. I don't feel anything lacking in a soy free diet personally.

    So, for me, the question really isn't ,"Why not eat soy", it's "Why?" It doesn't give me anything nutritionally that I can't find in a better tasting form, IMO, from animal sources. Why take the risk that it may be carcinogenic for a tofu dog?
    I used to use soy as a cheap nutritious substitute for milk when my goats were temporarily dry. As a comparison, I squeezed a teat of a milking animal, the resulting fluid was immediately available for use. To make soymilk, I had to grind beans, bring to a boil in lots of water, squeeze through cheesecloth, cool. And supplement with B12 shots for what I was missing. Cheese and tofu both took many extra steps, but I'd rather eat fresh French cheese any day than hunks of tasteless soy curd. But as long as I thought I was gaining health benefits for my soy use, I was willing to put up with the drawbacks.I also used a lot of TVP as a meat substitute and extender. No longer. First, one kid showed extreme allergy to soy products. AS the warnings became louder, I started listening. The cautions made sense, then when GMO stuff and Roundup took center stage, I abandoned soy use completely, with the exception of soy sauce in infrequent stirfries. I definitely lean towards my carnivore heritage and away from vegetarianism.
    Last edited by Paysan; 08-21-2012 at 01:42 PM.

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by onalark View Post

    Have you heard of this stuff?

    Doenjang - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I get it when I go to Korean restaurants. My god. On meat? So delicious. It makes me sad that it's starting to be made with wheat. Stop ruining things, wheat!
    Hmm... no, BUT... I will be looking for it next time I'm at the big Oriental Supermarket in Orlando. They cover many Asian cuisines so they should have it.

    Thanks for the tip!
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Strike one for soy: It's not Primal.

    It's a legume and, in anything other than the edamame out of the shell form, it's a processed food.

    Strike two for soy: I don't like it. It's gross.

    You had me at strike two...........

    Let's see, I could have a gritty watery milk-like substance or I could drink some raw real milk.
    I could have a grass fed burger or I could have a cardboard replica of one made out of "textured vegetable protein" and who knows what else. I could have a squidgy cheese-like substance that never melts right on my burger or maybe just have some real cheese.
    I could have all meat sausages or I could have a tofu dog. Nuff said.
    I could have a squidgy white flavorless substance known as tofu in my stir-fry or I could have some shrimp and scallops.

    Strike three for soy : Possible potential breast cancer risk

    We can debate about phytoestrogens until the free range cows come home. There are just as many studies saying it's carcinogenic and saying it's preventative against cancer, some poorly done, some scientifically sound, some obvious shills and some independent research, on both sides of the issue. Plus others that say it makes no difference. This puts it firmly in the "We Really Don't Know For Sure Yet" category in my mind.

    Given the above two strikes, it's not Primal and I don't like it anyway, why should I take a risk that maybe the research on the cancer danger side turns out to be true? Anecdotal, I know, but I ate a lot of soy growing up with 70's health freak parents and continued to do so until I got breast cancer at 45. Now I choose to err on the side of caution for my own personal safety.

    So that's three strikes. Soy, you're out of my diet.
    Ahh Paleobird....you had me at Strike Two......

  6. #96
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    Oh, but I do agree that you can't really replace real fermented soy sauce and wasabi for sushi. It only takes a bit when you use as much wasabi as I do though . I tried with Worcestershire sauce....not good. Not good at all.

  7. #97
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Ahh Paleobird....you had me at Strike Two......
    That's just cuz you don't have breasts

    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Oh, but I do agree that you can't really replace real fermented soy sauce and wasabi for sushi. It only takes a bit when you use as much wasabi as I do though . I tried with Worcestershire sauce....not good. Not good at all.
    Oooh yes. Just enough soy sauce to make the wasabi "dippable"

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paysan View Post
    {snip} First, one kid showed extreme allergy to soy products. {snip}
    QFT. Kids are constantly being switched off soy formula because it causes all sorts of issues (gastro-intestinal and otherwise).

    If my hypothetical children can't tolerate it....

  9. #99
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    I don't think there's anything wrong with soy sauce. You consume so little of it. I don't use it every day and I don't even dip all my sushi in it because I like it mostly just the way it is. So when I have some, I don't worry about it at all. Soy sauce is way different from basing your diet on tofu, tempeh and soy protein phony foods. That reminds me, I once tried soy jerky and was really wierded out how it had the same taste and texture as real jerky. Plus I couldn't stop eating it. Something wrong with that, I say.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
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  10. #100
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    Still looking around this Soy story, just found a study showing it reduces Testosterone levels in healthy men, although the researchers were pleased with this as a potential marker of reduced prostate cancer risk.
    European Journal of Clinical Nutrition - Dietary supplements of soya flour lower serum testosterone concentrations and improve markers of oxidative stress in men

    Experimental design
    Volunteers were recruited through adverts placed in the hospital, and were accepted only if they were omnivorous, healthy and non-smokers. They were rejected if obese (body mass index (BMI) >30 Kg/m2) or if they had taken any antibiotics or vitamin supplements within the previous month.

    After baseline assessment volunteers were asked to eat three scones a day (one at 08:00 then at 13:00 and 18:00) in addition to their normal diets for a period of 6 weeks. The scones were made either with wheat flour or soya flour (Nutrisoy flour, ADM Europort, Netherlands). The two scone types were well matched for energy, fat and fibre content (wheat flour scones 1568 kJ, 11.8 g, 3.64 g vs soya flour scones 1625 kJ, 12.6 g, 3.67 g). In those volunteers taking the soya scones the additional daily intake of isoflavones was 120 mg/day (daidzein 75 mg/day and genistein 45 mg/day). After a 6 week washout period the volunteers switched to the alternative scone type for a further 6 weeks (randomized double blind placebo controlled cross-over trial). Four-day dietary records were recorded during weeks 6 and 12 and fasting blood was taken at the end of these periods before 9 am. Volunteers were reviewed weekly to monitor their progress, provide encouragement and check compliance by counting the number of scones they had not eaten.
    Conclusion
    We have shown that soya supplements can reduce serum testosterone and improve markers of oxidative stress. Whilst these findings should not be over-interpreted, they provide a putative mechanism by which soya supplements can protect against prostatic disease and atherosclerosis. Further dietary studies with clinical end points are warranted.

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