Why are people so concerned with weight-loss? page 17

[magnolia1973]

Thanks Owly.

[sbhikes]

Actually, I was talking about both men and women. Plus, I do not share Mark's or Paleo vision of Primal paradise of healthy people. I am more along Diamond's vision of primitive cultures as a rather violent and miserable society, who did enjoy a lot of fresh air and free roaming but were checked by violence, stress and vice as much as we are today. I do know that the on-set of agriculture caused the failure of health, but I do not think primitive societies are ideal. I love the modern civilization and believe that humanitarian ideals will lead to a better world, sustainable development and the eventual smartening up of the human race. It is hard not to despair sometimes, but in the end, humanity should not have survived. And we did.

Primal/Paleo is no more than a non-toxic way of eating with a great fitness approach to me.

Well, primitive women ate non-toxic and were fit so why is it that primitive men look somewhat similar to Mark but primitive women do not look like Mark's wife? Does living in violent and miserable conditions work for men? How about with the onset of agriculture? Do agricultural women look like Mark's wife? Does it truly take modern, industrial culture to look like that? And if so, doesn't that make that image of female perfection sort of artificial?

[lexie]

Well, primitive women ate non-toxic and were fit so why is it that primitive men look somewhat similar to Mark but primitive women do not look like Mark's wife? Does living in violent and miserable conditions work for men? How about with the onset of agriculture? Do agricultural women look like Mark's wife? Does it truly take modern, industrial culture to look like that? And if so, doesn't that make that image of female perfection sort of artificial?

Is it agricultural? Or is the changing practices for giving birth as well/instead? That might be a pretty big factor, I think.

[Leida]

It could be that the diet of primitive women is different from primitive men, because of the way the food is gathered and distributed. I would say that in many primitive cultures females consumed more carbs historically, maybe that is why so many of us are happier with an apple and a yogurt than with a pork shoulder chop (and I know, sbhikes, you are one of the women who truly loves fat and meat). They also have no way of controlling the childbearing save for abstinence (that is not much seeing how rape and endless transfer of females between the males) and the infanticide.

How's Mark's wife looks? I mean, peskatarianism sounds far better than the raw vegan!

[lexie]

It could be that the diet of primitive women is different from primitive men, because of the way the food is gathered and distributed. I would say that in many primitive cultures females consumed more carbs historically, maybe that is why so many of us are happier with an apple and a yogurt than with a pork shoulder chop (and I know, sbhikes, you are one of the women who truly loves fat and meat). They also have no way of controlling the childbearing save for abstinence (that is not much seeing how rape and endless transfer of females between the males) and the infanticide.

How's Mark's wife looks? I mean, peskatarianism sounds far better than the raw vegan!

Women were often given things like liver, particularly if they were childbearing/breastfeeding, because many primitive cultures knew that organ meats were necessary for healthy pregnancies and children. Not sure about other parts of the time, but I remember reading about how breastfeeding women in particular were encouraged to eat raw liver.

[magnolia1973]

I think that it is just not natural for women to be at 18% or below body fat much after puberty. It's not beneficial the way it is for a man to be lean. The way women live to be at those low body %'s is not normal in terms of eating or exercise. I saw an article once on body fat %'s and the actresses noted at 20% or below had trainers and strict diets. I think if we eat and move in accordance with what our body says, it will lead use to a higher body fat % than is "aesthetic" in a modern society where even those with low body fats are airbrushed. We'd probably look like the tribal women.

So really, the low body fats.... it's an aesthetic issue and the funny thing is that for most of us, we can't actually acheive that because the actual preferred look is very lean, but with breasts and a defined waist. Breasts plus a defined waist don't generally come with lithe, lean arms and legs. There are like 6 people in the world with full breasts, a waist and long lean legs.

[sbhikes]

Birth giving hasn't changed that much. Except for all those Ceasarians, the baby still comes out the same place in due course. And it's not like modern hospitals give you a tummy tuck right after the baby pops out.

Does anyone have any hard facts about primitive women's diets? Or are you making it all up based on assumptions that women do not hunt, or would not catch a lot of small game and fish if they weren't hunting large animals, or that there are significant amounts of edible plant life available at all times and that men do not share their catch with women? Wouldn't all that baby-lifting and hauling around baskets of potatoes give them well-defined biceps and triceps? How come they don't have washboard abs? And come on, do the women in those pictures really truly look bad, diseased and sick to you? If so, wow, you all are sicker than I thought.

I seriously think that we modern, Western women chase after an ideal that actually isn't all that natural. I don't care if you want to look a certain way, but to judge women who don't look that way, who look like women living in the wild, does a huge disservice to all women.

[lexie]

I think that it is just not natural for women to be at 18% or below body fat much after puberty. It's not beneficial the way it is for a man to be lean. The way women live to be at those low body %'s is not normal in terms of eating or exercise. I saw an article once on body fat %'s and the actresses noted at 20% or below had trainers and strict diets. I think if we eat and move in accordance with what our body says, it will lead use to a higher body fat % than is "aesthetic" in a modern society where even those with low body fats are airbrushed. We'd probably look like the tribal women.

So really, the low body fats.... it's an aesthetic issue and the funny thing is that for most of us, we can't actually acheive that because the actual preferred look is very lean, but with breasts and a defined waist. Breasts plus a defined waist don't generally come with lithe, lean arms and legs. There are like 6 people in the world with full breasts, a waist and long lean legs.

And it's body shape, too - even with low body fat, some people will never have a super defined waist, because some of that is how your ribcage is shaped. Just as some of smaller bones and other have thicker. Just as some are tall and some are not.

[quelsen]

Magnolia has some gorgeous pics on her journal thread. She definitely fits the curvy blonde goddess thing

qft

[Owly]

I don't know, I'm pretty intuitive in my eating and activity levels lately and am having no issues staying around 20% on primal (including carbs even). At least some of it must be genetic. However, I have far more muscle mass than a Hollywood star.