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Thread: Experience report - A trail marathon in ketosis page 2

  1. #11
    canuck416's Avatar
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    Thanks for your very interesting post. I started a fairly strict Paleo diet (90%) in March and and went from 213 lbs. down to 170 in about 3 and a half months. My daily carb grams trend between 75 and 100 and I have been keeping my net calories in the 1 pound per week weight loss range. I believed I was fat adapted but after reading your post I'm not sure, it took about 4 weeks on the diet before I could run without that dead leg feeling and now my runs are much better, however I'm not sure if it's because I'm fat adapted or just because I've lost weight. Lowering my carb grams down to the 30-50 range for a month should ensure I'm in Ketosis and it will be interesting to see the effect on my training. My training is an 80/10/10 plan - 80% low heart rate training, 10% intervals or hill repeats, 10% weight training. I'll drop by and post periodically to let you know how it goes.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by canuck416 View Post
    Thanks for your very interesting post. I started a fairly strict Paleo diet (90%) in March and and went from 213 lbs. down to 170 in about 3 and a half months. My daily carb grams trend between 75 and 100 and I have been keeping my net calories in the 1 pound per week weight loss range. I believed I was fat adapted but after reading your post I'm not sure, it took about 4 weeks on the diet before I could run without that dead leg feeling and now my runs are much better, however I'm not sure if it's because I'm fat adapted or just because I've lost weight. Lowering my carb grams down to the 30-50 range for a month should ensure I'm in Ketosis and it will be interesting to see the effect on my training. My training is an 80/10/10 plan - 80% low heart rate training, 10% intervals or hill repeats, 10% weight training. I'll drop by and post periodically to let you know how it goes.
    I really recommend getting the device to test your ketone level. That also allows you to check how many grams of carbs you can get away with before the levels get too low.

    One thing that the Volek-Phinney book really opened my eyes to was that there is a "dead zone" when it comes to how many carbs you eat. According to them, you should eat eithermore than 150 grams per day or less than 50 grams per day. If you're in the 50-150 gram zone, you are not getting enough glucose to fuel your brain, while at the same time not producing enough ketones to do it either. At best, you end up fueling it by your liver doing a lot of gluconeogenesis (converting protein to glucose), which may mean breaking down muscle mass.

    Interestingly, V&P's "dead zone" is Mark Sisson's "optimal" zone... I would love to hear them debate this out.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by elenius View Post
    I really recommend getting the device to test your ketone level. That also allows you to check how many grams of carbs you can get away with before the levels get too low.

    One thing that the Volek-Phinney book really opened my eyes to was that there is a "dead zone" when it comes to how many carbs you eat. According to them, you should eat eithermore than 150 grams per day or less than 50 grams per day. If you're in the 50-150 gram zone, you are not getting enough glucose to fuel your brain, while at the same time not producing enough ketones to do it either. At best, you end up fueling it by your liver doing a lot of gluconeogenesis (converting protein to glucose), which may mean breaking down muscle mass.

    Interestingly, V&P's "dead zone" is Mark Sisson's "optimal" zone... I would love to hear them debate this out.
    Good idea on the ketone measuring device, I'll look into it. Based on my personal experience muscle mass (lean body weight) did not decrease and actually increased a couple of lbs since I began. Strength is up significantly so it doesn't appear that keeping carb grams in the 75 to 100 range has created any muscle wasting. It would be interesting to hear Mark's input regarding this issue.

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    elenius,

    So glad to read your experience with ketogenic endurance. I am undertaking a very similar experiment with an ultramarathon, 50k. Its my first, so I'm starting slow. I too bought the meter, and have to recommend it to anyone trying to actually get into ketosis. I think that 50g carbs is probably too much for most people, myself included. Additionally, the meter will tell you if your protein intake is too high, which most of us easily overlook. Ketosis is all about LOTS of fat. I also am pretty sure that diet beverages can keep you out of ketosis, as they do solicit an insulin response.

    I was also glad to read that your training was so informal and short. I am undertaking a 3 run a week program, with total weekly mileage under 20. Way out there in the terms of "classic" training, but I think its smarter to prevent injury.

    I'm blogging about it, Ted Van Slyck | Curious, industrious, motivated if anyone is interested in how it goes for me. P

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keto Ted View Post
    elenius,

    So glad to read your experience with ketogenic endurance. I am undertaking a very similar experiment with an ultramarathon, 50k. Its my first, so I'm starting slow. I too bought the meter, and have to recommend it to anyone trying to actually get into ketosis. I think that 50g carbs is probably too much for most people, myself included. Additionally, the meter will tell you if your protein intake is too high, which most of us easily overlook. Ketosis is all about LOTS of fat. I also am pretty sure that diet beverages can keep you out of ketosis, as they do solicit an insulin response.

    I was also glad to read that your training was so informal and short. I am undertaking a 3 run a week program, with total weekly mileage under 20. Way out there in the terms of "classic" training, but I think its smarter to prevent injury.

    I'm blogging about it, Ted Van Slyck | Curious, industrious, motivated if anyone is interested in how it goes for me. P
    Thanks, I'll be following your blog. Very interested in seeing how you adapt. Good luck!

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keto Ted View Post
    elenius,

    So glad to read your experience with ketogenic endurance. I am undertaking a very similar experiment with an ultramarathon, 50k. Its my first, so I'm starting slow. I too bought the meter, and have to recommend it to anyone trying to actually get into ketosis. I think that 50g carbs is probably too much for most people, myself included. Additionally, the meter will tell you if your protein intake is too high, which most of us easily overlook. Ketosis is all about LOTS of fat. I also am pretty sure that diet beverages can keep you out of ketosis, as they do solicit an insulin response.

    I was also glad to read that your training was so informal and short. I am undertaking a 3 run a week program, with total weekly mileage under 20. Way out there in the terms of "classic" training, but I think its smarter to prevent injury.

    I'm blogging about it, Ted Van Slyck | Curious, industrious, motivated if anyone is interested in how it goes for me. P
    I should clarify that I certainly don't recommend to anyone to train like I do I'm just not that interested in running lots and lots of miles. So many other fun things to do, and I prefer to be well-rounded athlete. Plus, I tend to injure myself when I run too much.

    Good luck on your 50k, I'll check out your blog too.

    One hack that allows you to eat a bit more carbs is to eat some coconut oil. I have been taking two tbsp a day, one of them before workouts.

  7. #17
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    Thanks for following my blog guys!

    About a week and a half in, training going really well. Just did hill repeats today, never felt so strong in all honesty. At least two cups of broth a day (2 bouillon cubes) is what it is taking to keep me feeling good. Sodium intake is SUPER important. Totally agree with the coconut oil. Coconut oil is a medium-chain triglyceride, which makes it different from other fats. When you eat it, it gets broken down a lot faster and gives a direct, measurable bump in my ketone level. I make sure to eat some every day. I just ran out of ketone strips, omg are they expensive. I am buying them from American Diabetes Wholesale for $2.80 a strip. I know someone who gets them from a Canadian Online drugstore for more like 2, but she actually needs them for her health. I don't actually need to measure everyday, so I didn't go through the hassle.

  8. #18
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    really appreciate your race report. I've race ultra in 3 sports and know the level of detail involved. Really enjoyed this report.
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  9. #19
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    Cool stuff. I ran a 50k this year and just ate watermelon slices at the aid stations and drank water. When I am training for a marathon I will never eat anything before and during my longs runs, I just bring water with me.

  10. #20
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    Thank you for your post. Great details, and clarity.

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