Raw foodism is silly. Here's why... page 13

[Owly]

Lol. Someone should tell my body it can't be active and healthy with a flat stomach at 20%. It seems to be showing evidence of all of the above.

[Leida]

No, I said, 'normally', and given BF% estimates are off by a huge % point and that an appearance of a particular body part depends on the fat deposition pattern at that point of time (i.e. the same post child-bearing a woman will have more on the stomach so might need lower BF% than a pre-child bearing to flatten it), you can only guesstimate where you are and where you need to be (unless you have been there recently and estimate by the same method). It's the mirror or photographs that tell the truth, independently of the numbers.

[magnolia1973]

Right, but once we are done with baby making this fat serves no purpose. So, ideally, we should shed it to stop wasting valuable resources on supporting it. It's only sustainable. Now, muscle would serve every kind of purpose as the kid is growing up and needs more care and sustenance to be provided by the hard working mom. I mean, if we have attracted our mate by the show of fertility and reproduced, that the time in our life to get rid of the deposits that supported both purposes and strive for emotional bliss of becoming an ageless fit goddess giving our kids the run for the money and great role model!

Except that the one child thing is relatively new. Most of the history of humans, you kept needing to have more kids.

Now, yes, we have evolved and a lot is changing, and we should strive to be fit and healthy. But I think that for most women, the shedding of excess fat and leaning out is executed in a less than healthy manner and we'd be better off accepting larger thighs as OK.... or even emblematic of good health (if they are toned).

A lack of excess fat is one piece of good health, but when we starve ourselves of nutrients to get there.... we are putting unseen systems under stress. Of all things, since going primal my hair and skin look better- the other outward sign of health. I imagine my insides are also that much better. I met a woman last year- very lean, but man her skin and hair did not look good and it led me to wonder about her actual health. My boss is the same way- enviable bodies - lean, muscular, fit.... but clearly other systems not as healthy.

When I hear about women getting very lean, I often actually wonder about their nutrition.... it's an awful lot of fat free protein. And then a lot of frankenfoods to keep them happy. I think to have an actual rounded, balanced diet with the right amounts of nutrients most people will not be excessively lean.

[Leida]

And I won't argue that. I just think that the athletic level of leaness can be achieved with full nutritional load and no damage to health.

[Lynna]

Cooking supposedly makes nutrients more bio-available in some foods, such as tomatoes (lycopene) and carrots (beta-carotene).

[not on the rug]

And I won't argue that. I just think that the athletic level of leaness can be achieved with full nutritional load and no damage to health.

do you understand that "athletic levels of leanness" are 1-not sustainable and 2-not healthy in the long term? i know/knew a TON of elite high school and college female athletes and more or less none of them were healthy and most of them didn't get a period. achieving a low level of bodyfat and living with it are 2 totally different things.

[sbhikes]

And I won't argue that. I just think that the athletic level of leaness can be achieved with full nutritional load and no damage to health.

Then why have you not achieved it? And don't say it's because you eat like a pig or some nonsense like that. If you had undamaged health and achieving that athletic level of leanness with full nutritional load and no damage to your health were truly possible, you would be able to make your appetite match your athletic leanness.

People seem to think that your appetite has something to do with the moral part of your brain. Hunger and satiety are simply hormonal responses. A healthy diet can restore your appetite to health. But health probably doesn't mean looking like a man with boobs and a bikini.

[magnolia1973]

i know/knew a TON of elite high school and college female athletes and more or less none of them were healthy and most of them didn't get a period.

And the rates of eating disorders are very high among female athletes. They do more than just ignore a little niggling hunger or skip the ice cream to look that way.

And define "athletic level of leanness"- it's going to vary. You go from jockeys and gymnasts to weightlifters. Let's look at men and a football team- every player is an athlete- but you have small, light guys that run fast all the way up to quick guys that are ginormous.

I dunno, if god gave you the body of an offensive lineman, you will never look like a jockey. Ever. But you are both athletes.

[not on the rug]

And the rates of eating disorders are very high among female athletes. They do more than just ignore a little niggling hunger or skip the ice cream to look that way.

And define "athletic level of leanness"- it's going to vary. You go from jockeys and gymnasts to weightlifters. Let's look at men and a football team- every player is an athlete- but you have small, light guys that run fast all the way up to quick guys that are ginormous.

I dunno, if god gave you the body of an offensive lineman, you will never look like a jockey. Ever. But you are both athletes.

i agree. and i would say my friends ran the gauntlet. some ate like offensive linemen, some probably didn't eat enough. the end result was typically the same. 6-pack abs. a very lean/dry look. these girls were all soccer players, field hockey players, basketball players, lacrosse players, and the occasional ice hockey player.

i was simply stating that such a low level of bodyfat, like leida states "the athletic level of leaness can be achieved with full nutritional load and no damage to health" is not sustainable or healthy, no matter how you achieve it.

[AuroraB]

Interesting. I paused the video as it panned and counted items. Where things were piled I assumed that I could see half of the produce and doubled the number, unless she specifically stated a number. If divided evenly across a week, this is what she is eating per day (I rounded, sometimes up, sometimes down):

1/2 watermelon(4)
1 pint dates(8)
7 figs(48)
2 zucchini(16)
6 apricots(42)
9 okra(60)
6 oranges(40)
22 roma tomatoes(164)
1 cucumber (8)
1 lemon (10)
5 nectarines(36)
1/4 avocado (2)
1/4 coconut (2)
1/2C pecans(4C)
1 bunch kale (8)
3 1/2 pints berries (24)
1 bunch herbs(7)
2 1/2 apples (18)
2 bunches kale (12)
1/4 bunch spinach (2)
1/4 bunch romaine (2)
1C grapes (6C)
1 pint cherry tomatoes (7)

If anyone is quick at punching in the numbers, I would be very interested to see what her macros are. (Too fiddly for me to do.)

If she's happy with it, and feeling good, that's great. But as she has posted it publicly, and I'm not running into her kitchen to snoop, I feel free to comment.

She looks a little too thin to me, especially considering that the camera adds weight. (I couldn't help wondering if all those bracelets were hiding some seriously scrawny wrists.)

The two things that struck me the most are:
How long does it take to eat all that? Does she have time for anything besides eating? Mercy!
What does her blood sugar look like? She has youth on her side now, but what is happening to her insides?

Also, I had to laugh when she called the number of bananas she is eating 'very few' (because she is enjoying more of the watery fruits in summer time). Six bananas a day!

And, the veg:fruit ratio is 8:12 (leaving out the avocado, coconut, and nuts, which I am assuming she is eating for the fats). And that is just in number of items. By poundage she is consuming at least 6 times the amount of fruit as veg. No wonder she feels great- she's on a sugar high all day long.

The spread looks wonderful (who can't appreciate the beauty of nature's bounty) but there's nothing here to make me think being a raw foodist is for me.

O.K., honestly, I didn't watch the video, but I my own experience, the only way she could possibly be consuming that much in one day is by juicing or blending (smoothies). She may be part eating and part blending, but she would have virtually NO TIME for anything else in the day if she were to chew all that food. I ate a very similar diet post-cancer diagnosis (versus CW therapies) and that was the only way that I could consume it all in one day. I also didn't eat that much/that kind of fruit. Way to much sugar! It's more of an alkalizing diet for the body but it wasn't something that I could've done longterm.

My 58 y/o SIL was a vegitarian must of her life and has tried to transition to eating meat (venision, fish, chicken) but has had a horrible time. She wants everyone to believe that she is sooooo healthy but she is the most emaciated and mal-nurished person I know. She's messed-up her GI system pretty bad and now is dealing with ulcerative colitis. She's so over stressed about food that she makes herself even more sick because of it all.