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Thread: So after reading marks post about coffee today, i have a query. page 6

  1. #51
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesS View Post
    I know you are not in to holistic medicine, but there are ways of actually correcting the problem. Epilepsy not only involves electrical hyperactivity but also myelin damage/deterioration allowing for the "short circuiting" of the nerves. Both are easy to address. If you ever decide you are interested let me know and I will explain how to do it. Otherwise I don't want to waste my time.
    How did you get the idea that I am against all holistic medicine? Just because I called megadoses of iodine and the people who peddle it dangerous and hate that some guy can take peoples money selling them the idea that cancer is a fungus and he can cure it with baking soda doesn't mean I have a closed mind to all non "western" allopathic medicine. I'm just against quackery and snake oil salesmen.

    The theory behind using the ketogenic diet for epilepsy is that it helps to repair the myelin. I'm experimenting with cutting back my medication while maintaining ketosis. So far so good.

    If you have any other suggestions that could help, I'm all ears.

    Oh, and you can add the idea that Ray Peat's theories are as full of holes as swiss cheese to the list of things we agree on too.
    Last edited by Paleobird; 08-17-2012 at 11:26 PM.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    How did you get the idea that I am against all holistic medicine? Just because I called megadoses of iodine and the people who peddle it dangerous and hate that some guy can take peoples money selling them the idea that cancer is a fungus and he can cure it with baking soda doesn't mean I have a closed mind to all non "western" allopathic medicine. I'm just against quackery and snake oil salesmen.

    The theory behind using the ketogenic diet for epilepsy is that it helps to repair the myelin. I'm experimenting with cutting back my medication while maintaining ketosis. So far so good.

    If you have any other suggestions that could help, I'm all ears.

    Oh, and you can add the idea that Ray Peat's theories are as full of holes as swiss cheese to the list of things we agree on too.
    Yes, the high dose iodine claims are ridiculous. And I totally agree that the sodium bicarbonate thing for cancer is quackery. I already did a whole chapter on that in the book I am writing on cancer.

    It was just a combination of things you said that made it sound like you were against holistic medicine.

    Anyway, let's start with myelin. The majority of myelin is composed of lecithin, and supplementing with lecithin granules will help increase myelin production. I recommend 1 tablespoon three times daily with meals. Larger doses are not recommended due to the high phosphorus content, which can have adverse effects on the bone. The fatty acids EPA and DHA as well as sublingual B12 in the form of methylcobalamin or trimethylglycine (TMG) also aid in the regeneration of myelin.

    It will take some time. Myelin regenerates so slowly that it was once thought it did not regenerate at all, but we now know it does.

    To help slow down brain over firing I recommend amino acids that increase GABA levels in the brain. The best are glycine, glutamine or taurine. Amino acids are best taken on an empty stomach at least 30 minutes before meals since they compete for absorption.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by impala454 View Post
    So I had never heard the word mycotoxin and I rarely take the word of the guy selling the $20 can of coffee when it comes to science. Take a look at the checked answer on this page food safety - Are fungal toxins a significant problem in coffee, and if so, can they be avoided? - Seasoned Advice .


    I find this extremely hard to believe, as I know people with extremely bad cases of celiac disease and they drink more coffee than I do (I drink a lot). They would be dead by now if that was the case.


    No arguments there
    Hey Chuck.

    You know, your comments about celiac friends chugging back coffee and not dying actually makes me feel a lot better. I wasn't 100% sure myself on what I'd read.

    Thanks!
    A Post-Primal PrimalPat

    Do not allow yourself to become wrapped up in a food 'lifestyle'. That is ego, and you are not that.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesS View Post
    If someone really wants the caffeine or "needs" the caffeine why not just either take caffeine tablets to avoid coffee's anti-nutrients and carcinogens or at least go to more healthy sources of caffeine such as yerba mate'?

    And regardless, if using caffeine support the adrenals to prevent most of the long term adverse effects of caffeine usage.
    James, what it your take on this?
    Evaluation of the cyto- and genotoxic acti... [Mutat Res. 2009 Sep-Oct] - PubMed - NCBI

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by KathyH View Post
    This is really nothing useful.

    The first problem is that this is a Petri dish study. What happens in Petri dishes does not always correlate to what happens in the body. For example, there was one study that claimed that the herb St. Johnswort could cause infertility. The claim was based on a Petri dish study in which they applied St. Johnswort extract directly to sperm and found this could deform or kill the sperm. St. Johnswort though does not affect semen in the body though. Just like vitamin C will kill semen if directly applied. Yet everyone consumes vitamin C yet we were all somehow born.

    The other limiting factor to this abstract is from this comment in the abstract:

    "We found that yerba mate extract induced a concentration-dependent, statistically significant increase in the level of apoptotic and necrotic cells and a decrease in the nuclear division index (NDI)."

    So they are using a concentrate directly on the lymphocytes but there is no statement as to what kind of extract, how concentrated the extract is or how high the levels of concentrate had to be to cause alterations in the cell. If I wanted to prove yerba mate' was toxic I could make a concentrated ethanol extract and apply it to any cell culture of the body and be able to induce alterations in the cell. Although I could do the same thing with virtually any substance, even a piece of steak.

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesS View Post
    This is really nothing useful.

    The first problem is that this is a Petri dish study. What happens in Petri dishes does not always correlate to what happens in the body. For example, there was one study that claimed that the herb St. Johnswort could cause infertility. The claim was based on a Petri dish study in which they applied St. Johnswort extract directly to sperm and found this could deform or kill the sperm. St. Johnswort though does not affect semen in the body though. Just like vitamin C will kill semen if directly applied. Yet everyone consumes vitamin C yet we were all somehow born.

    The other limiting factor to this abstract is from this comment in the abstract:

    "We found that yerba mate extract induced a concentration-dependent, statistically significant increase in the level of apoptotic and necrotic cells and a decrease in the nuclear division index (NDI)."

    So they are using a concentrate directly on the lymphocytes but there is no statement as to what kind of extract, how concentrated the extract is or how high the levels of concentrate had to be to cause alterations in the cell. If I wanted to prove yerba mate' was toxic I could make a concentrated ethanol extract and apply it to any cell culture of the body and be able to induce alterations in the cell. Although I could do the same thing with virtually any substance, even a piece of steak.
    Yes, I know it was just in vitro study and doesn't mean much.
    How about this one? Can you dissect it?
    High Levels of Carcinogenic Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons in Mate Drinks

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesS View Post
    Coffee has numerous adverse effects on health. I have posted on these several times:

    coffee

    coffee

    Carcinogenic properties of coffee.

    A great example of how research can be manipulated
    James, I appreciate the time and effort you put into researching the science behind many health claims. With regards to coffee can you tell me the average amount of Benzene soluble matter that is in a typical cup of coffee. Also are you aware of any reliable research studies that present any possible benefits to drinking 1 to 2 cups of coffee per day.

  8. #58
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    And then you have articles like this - weeding through the conflicting messages and information to find the truth can be challenging.

    Health Benefits of Coffee - WebMD

    (not that Webmd is a scientific research site but the article raises some interesting points)

    My rule of thumb is to look at a picture of the so called experts who, you would think, practice what they preach. If the nutritional experts are overweight and unhealthy looking then I can't take them too seriously.

    James, do you have a picture of yourself? It would be great to see the results of your healthy lifestyle.
    Last edited by canuck416; 08-18-2012 at 11:22 AM.

  9. #59
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    Remember, no food or drink is it's components. It is a whole item. Coffee in it's parts may have some things that don't seem super healthy, but as a WHOLE it appears to not be unhealthy at all. Coffee has tons of antioxidants, so maybe that counter acts the things that some think could be unhealthy. (The caffeine and the tannins.)

    I drink 1 to 2 cups a day. I have very little worry that it will effect my lifespan negatively. (or positively, for that matter.)

  10. #60
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    Wow, some serious buzz kill in this thread.

    I'll stick to drinking coffee - sometimes with unsalted butter added - and find larger issues to worry about.

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