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Thread: So after reading marks post about coffee today, i have a query. page 5

  1. #41
    patski's Avatar
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    Thanks Robin for that awesome info. Despite my sapped adrenals, maybe I *can* continue drinking my mate?
    A Post-Primal PrimalPat

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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by patski View Post
    Thanks Robin for that awesome info. Despite my sapped adrenals, maybe I *can* continue drinking my mate?
    I honestly don't know on that. I would suggest asking your endo MD. For me the prohibition on caffeine is about my epilepsy. I am trying out some yerba mate (which is seriously yummy) to see if I have a similar reaction.

    So far it does seem to feel like a stimulant but without the jittery factor of caffeine and without any "crash" afterwards.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by KerryK View Post
    Dr. BB, if there are any other unusual items like Crio that comes to your mind, please, if you don't mind, can you list them here? I can't tell you how excited I am to try this (and my 93 year old Dad & 9 year old son are looking forward to trying it, too!)
    Define unusual.
    If you're looking for something that tastes like coffee, try Teecino. It's herbal coffee. Tastes like joe, smells like joe, but it's made from herbs. It's not primal since they use barley, but we were already arguing that coffee in itself isn't paleo.
    I confess I like their "tee"bags better than the grounds (again cuz I can never get the flavor right when I use my aeropress). Vanilla nut is a good starter flavor.

    ETA: I also want to put a good word in for Republic of Tea & Zhena's Gypsy Tea. Both have pretty sensational chocolate teas. RoT has red velvet rooibos, and Zhena has chocolate chai. *does the herbal tea Snoopy dance*
    Last edited by Dr. Bork Bork; 08-17-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Bork Bork View Post
    Yay! Don't expect the same punch as joe, but do expect a hot, rich, invigorating flavor. For a real treat, splurge on the Crio Beans. They're like crack. I love 'em!
    Crio Beans - Crio Brü

    I've only tried a few of the original flavors (Cavalla & one other that I don't see on the site and can't remember the name of). I could never get the flavor right for my tastes in my crazy little aeropress, buuuuut... a dessert shop just opened over by Grace's preschool and they serve Crio. They have all the flavors, so I intend to work my way through! The owner even accepted some of my suggestions for flavors and upcoming holiday stuff.

    Remember, if you end up not liking it, you can still use it to top desserts and munch on cuz it's just cacao nibs!
    Thank you Dr. BB, I ordered 2 bags and had my first cup this afternoon. (The Cavalla). It was awesome!! It's the perfect afternoon pick me up, without the high amount of caffeine in coffee.

    I hope the health benefits are somewhat legit, I was a bit worried when I saw the area it's from. (I LOVE the SLC area, but the area around Provo and south of it are littered with "scammy" health product companies.) I sure do miss the mountains.

  5. #45
    Dr. Bork Bork's Avatar
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    I believe in it, bob!
    I remembered the other flavor I tried before that I didn't see at the website. I popped over to Decadence for a Red Velvet Crio Frappe and they had ALL the flavors on the shelves... it was Vega Real. I liked that one best.
    I wish y'all could live over here and help support Decadence and their Crio endeavour. I mean to keep it in business single handedly.

    and just a thought... I dunno how scammy you can get on a product like Crio Bru. I mean it's cacao nibs. Everyone knows how awesome cacao is!
    Last edited by Dr. Bork Bork; 08-17-2012 at 07:18 PM.
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  6. #46
    JamesS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patski View Post
    Also: dear James, Yerba mate doesn't contain caffeine but a similar substance. Mateen? I do t know the spelling. It doesn't give you jitters or make you crash.

    I love, love, LOVE Yerba mate!
    There is actually a lot of debate over whether mate' contains caffeine of mateine. Some studies have suggested that raw mate' primarily contains mateine, but the roasting of mate' coverts the mateine to caffeine.

    Unfortunately there is very little evidence to suggest that mateine and caffeine are different substances.

    Either way mate' is very nutritional and the nutrition does help offset any negative effects from the stimulatory effect. And mate' does have other beneficial effects beyond that such as helping improve heart function.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Bork Bork View Post
    Define unusual.
    If you're looking for something that tastes like coffee, try Teecino. It's herbal coffee. Tastes like joe, smells like joe, but it's made from herbs. It's not primal since they use barley, but we were already arguing that coffee in itself isn't paleo.
    I confess I like their "tee"bags better than the grounds (again cuz I can never get the flavor right when I use my aeropress). Vanilla nut is a good starter flavor.

    ETA: I also want to put a good word in for Republic of Tea & Zhena's Gypsy Tea. Both have pretty sensational chocolate teas. RoT has red velvet rooibos, and Zhena has chocolate chai. *does the herbal tea Snoopy dance*
    Anything, really, not just a coffee substitute. But hey HO that chocolate chai is going on my future treats list. The Teecino sounds fun to try, too.

    Thanks ... again!

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by patski View Post
    Coffee quality varies greatly. Coffee is also packed full of mycotoxins. David Asprey talks a lot about this on his BulletproofExec site.
    So I had never heard the word mycotoxin and I rarely take the word of the guy selling the $20 can of coffee when it comes to science. Take a look at the checked answer on this page food safety - Are fungal toxins a significant problem in coffee, and if so, can they be avoided? - Seasoned Advice .

    Quote Originally Posted by patski View Post
    Recently it's been found that the molecular structure of coffee is similar to gluten. If you ate gluten intolerant, it'd be best to stay away.
    I find this extremely hard to believe, as I know people with extremely bad cases of celiac disease and they drink more coffee than I do (I drink a lot). They would be dead by now if that was the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by patski View Post
    I rarely drink coffee. I don't have the best reaction to it.
    No arguments there
    -Chuck

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by charliemathers View Post
    Coffee has many great benefits. See link below.

    Ray Peat Forum - Caffeine: A vitamin-like nutrient, or adaptogen
    There are a number of things the author has overlooked or made mistakes on. I am not going to address each and every one of them because it will take to much time, but I will address some of them.

    To start with many of the antioxidant and the iron binding effects of coffee are due to the polyphenols. These are neutralized though by the addition of dairy, which most people add to their coffee in an attempt to make it taste better.

    Then there is the claims made by the author:

    "Caffeine protects against cancer caused by radiation, chemical carcinogens, viruses, and estrogens.

    Caffeine synergizes with progesterone, and increases its concentration in blood and tissues.
    "

    These claims are actually contradictory since progesterone increases the risk of certain cancers by activating carcinogenic human papilloma viruses that have been linked to various cancers including breast, cervical and prostate cancers.

    Coffee polyphenols can help destroy viruses and can bind numerous harmful substances and therefore could be considered beneficial in this way. Although the polyphenols also bind valuable nutrients and other beneficial compounds and by this makes it non-beneficial. And again the polyphenols are neutralized by the addition of dairy.

    Then the author claims:

    "Coffee provides very significant quantities of magnesium, as well as other nutrients including vitamin B1."

    But presence of does not mean available. Coffee contains polyphenols and oxalic acid that bind man nutrients.

    "The prenatal growth retardation that can be caused by feeding large amounts of caffeine is prevented by supplementing the diet with sugar."

    Supplementing the diet with sugar can lead to all sorts of health issues such as immune suppression.

    "Caffeine stops production of free radicals by inhibiting xanthine oxidase, an important factor in tissue stress."

    A major source of xanthine oxidase is dairy, which many people add to their coffee.

    "The increased metabolic rate caffeine produces increases the cellular consumption of glucose, so experiments that study the effects of coffee taken on an empty stomach are measuring the effects of increased temperature and metabolic rate, combined with increased adrenaline (resulting from the decrease of glucose), and so confuse the issue of caffeine’s intrinsic effects. "

    Coffee raises blood sugar in large part from the release of epinephrine, which increases glucose synthesis from liver glycogen and suppression of insulin release and utilization. Coffee further increases blood sugar by increasing cortisol levels.

    "Minton argued that cAMP increases progressively with the degree of breast disease, up to cancer, and that cAMP is increased by caffeine. "

    Caffeine does not increase cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP) levels. Caffeine and other xanthines act as cAMP phosphodiesterase inhibitors (cAMPPDEIs). In short this means that the xanthines block the breakdown of existing cAMP, which is not the same as increasing cAMP levels.

    "Although we don’t know exactly why caffeine improves an athlete’s endurance, I think the same processes are involved when coffee increases a person’s “endurance” in ordinary activities. "

    The reason has been known for decades. Small amounts of caffeine block the breakdown of cAMP. This in turn stimulates brown adipose tissue to burn white adipose tissue as a primary fuel source sparing the body's glycogen reserves. Since lipids are a more efficient fuel for the body the use of white adipose tissue as a fuel source increases endurance. This is actually the same basis behind the use of the old ephedrine-caffeine mixes for weight loss. The ephedrine increases cAMP while the caffeine blocked the breakdown of cAMP promoting the reduction of white adipose tissue. Although caffeine amounts above 100mg actually have the opposite effect and reduce energy.

    An caffeine is in no way an adaptogen. Chronic use of caffeine weakens the adrenals, the opposite of adaptogens.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    I honestly don't know on that. I would suggest asking your endo MD. For me the prohibition on caffeine is about my epilepsy. I am trying out some yerba mate (which is seriously yummy) to see if I have a similar reaction.
    I know you are not in to holistic medicine, but there are ways of actually correcting the problem. Epilepsy not only involves electrical hyperactivity but also myelin damage/deterioration allowing for the "short circuiting" of the nerves. Both are easy to address. If you ever decide you are interested let me know and I will explain how to do it. Otherwise I don't want to waste my time.

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