Trying to add mass to my frame - struggling!!! page 5

[ThePrimalOhioan]

Well this thread started out by discussing how to solve the OP's issue. Now it's turned to questioning the whole intent. I am avoiding gaining mass myself in favor of gaining raw strength. However, everyone's goals are different, some don't find it enough to be simply "in shape" which is a very vague term, some strive to be more. So I and many others have given their input on solving the OP's dilemma without judgement or preaching.

I personally would have discouraged anyone to not gain any more mass, but again that's not the question or intent of this thread. If discouraging mass gaining is your intent, start a new thread.

[ThePrimalOhioan]

If you think you're struggling with 6'5"/200lbs, try being an just inch shorter than that but 40lbs lighter. I stepped on the scale this morning for the first time in about a month, and it went 159...160...159...160. I have been trying to pound back about 3000+ calories a day and I've scaled my training back from 5 to 4 to 3 days a week, now I'm seriously considering 2. The more I eat, the more I stay the same...it's like my body is ignoring the laws of thermodynamics. I'm stronger than I've ever been (which really isn't much), but I've hit a wall on all of my lifts, because I just don't have the mass to build any more strength. In addition to dropping almost 30lbs I didn't know I could even lose, my pant size has dropped from a snug 32 to needing a belt to keep up 30s. Looks like I'm a 29, but I can't psychologically bring myself to buy jeans in a size I haven't worn since grade 10. Oddly enough though, my chest has gained an inch and is an even 40"...so at least I have attained a little more of that coveted "v" shape....even if it's lower-case. And explaining this to anyone outside of this community? "Oh, you just need to eat bread like a normal person", or "Boo-hoo, I wish I had your problems".

So....yes, I have a reasonable amount of muscle tone/definition now, but you can also see every vein on my arms, every tendon in my neck and my heartbeat through my back. And I now have jump up and down to lower the loading dock ramp at work. You want the definition of a hard-gainer? *YO*.

For you I'd suggest working on a real solid strength base (i.e... 3 to 5 method, 3 to 5 sets of 3 to 5 reps; 3 to 5 workouts per day; and 3 to 5 days rest per workout). Believe or not, the strength training will make your muscles DENSER (i.e. more muscle fibers vice fluid around the muscle fibers) which will make your muscles grow (not as fast) but the muscle you build will be far more functional.

[Forever Young]

Well this thread started out by discussing how to solve the OP's issue. Now it's turned to questioning the whole intent. I am avoiding gaining mass myself in favor of gaining raw strength. However, everyone's goals are different, some don't find it enough to be simply "in shape" which is a very vague term, some strive to be more. So I and many others have given their input on solving the OP's dilemma without judgement or preaching.

I personally would have discouraged anyone to not gain any more mass, but again that's not the question or intent of this thread. If discouraging mass gaining is your intent, start a new thread.

I can see that this is directed at me. I am NOT discouraging anyone from striving to reach their absolute best nor am I judging or preaching. I simply presented another side of it all and something for pondering. I've been at this a very long time and I think I have some worthwhile things to offer. Oh and I'm all about gaining mass!!

My angle here was more about realistic expectations after one has been at it in a dedicated way for a good amount of time. I've got news for you! Not everyone can gain a decent amount of mass! Its simply the way it is. Some guys struggle to gain even an appreciable amount and nothing they do will ever change this. For all of us its a process of coming to the point where we realize we are pretty near our ultimate potential where that is concerned. Then the focus is shifted a bit to overall fitness and longevity. This said, I still train like an animal on every rep I perform with the goal being more muscle and strength.

Plus you don't get to decide what others can bring here and who should start another thread etc. I have only the best wishes to the OP and I hope that he is able to bust through this plateau. He got lots of decent advice. I provided a different slant.

[MouthDR]

Whoa! Lots to address; let me try my best!

Thats great! Sounds like youre inching along, but tenacity always wins out! Give us an update on how and what youre doing... might help some hard gainers

Thank you! And yes, I will keep everyone posted.

Great thread, thanks for all the info! Congrats on your progress .

I'm interested in what exactly you're consuming on an average day now to reach a high amount of calories.

A list of top ten high calorie primal-approved foods would be great for someone like me trying to gain weight. Loads of discussion on dairy. My system does not handle dairy very well, so I'm looking for alternatives? Seems like sweet potatoes and nuts are viable options, which I'm already including in my diet.

The forums seem to focus on weight loss mostly.

Average day?
Brekky at 6am: 4 eggs fried in coconut oil, 1/2 - 1 avocado, 1" slice of goats cheese with egg scramble (started that now), 3 homemade sausage patties with pastured pork, black coffee EDIT Forgot to add that I now have a cup of full fat goats milk yogurt as well

2nd brekky (10am): bone broth soup with tons of veggies, and some bone in GF beef, with added EVOO, random goats cheese slices and some form of meat (dried, cured, etc.), tomato, cucumber, pepper, onion, garlic salad with EVOO/apple cider vinegar dressing

Lunch (2pm): whatever meat leftovers from the night before (today was some grilled chicken with broccoli and raw cabbage salad on the side with EVOO/ACV dressing

Get home from work: shake made with 2 scoops protein, can of coconut milk, cacao nibs and walnuts

Later in evening: dinner (again, meat and veggies)

Here and there, I made add in some almonds but overall the meal sizes are very large.

Muscle building is ALL about genetics.

I agree with that statement but only to a point. Yes, we can't all look like AS, even with all the gear he was on, but we can get pretty close. Our physique will be different obviously, but if you eat enough, workout well enough, drastic changes can be made. I did it years ago when I got up to 240, and who knows how far I could have gone had I stayed with it. We can all do, just not to the extremes as a few.

If you think you're struggling with 6'5"/200lbs, try being an just inch shorter than that but 40lbs lighter.

I fell for ya, I really do. My cousin was the same. 6'4" and weighed in UNDER 140 lbs. However, after some chatting with me, he's now around 180 lbs.

See the bigger picture.. lugging around gigantic muscles looks ridiculous anyway.. Not sure who still thinks that looks good

True, but if that is at all in reference to my original post, it isn't what I want. At my height, I would love to be around 220-225, with a sub-10% BF. That's it. Sure, I can get to 240 again and beyond, but it's not what I'm after. Heck, I doubt it would even be as easily attainable to get all big and immobile. I've seen that, and they are almost always certainly on gear, or fat as well.

[kitoi]

3-5 reps is not going to put mass on but will make you strong. Up the reps to 8-15 to get some hypertrophy. Add in peroidization every 4wks, mix things up to stimulate muscle growth. Keep the intensity up and volume high.

[MouthDR]

3-5 reps is not going to put mass on but will make you strong. Up the reps to 8-15 to get some hypertrophy. Add in peroidization every 4wks, mix things up to stimulate muscle growth. Keep the intensity up and volume high.

Isn't that low rep range the premise behind programs like Starting Strength and 5/3/1? And as far as I have heard, they put on tons of mass, along with strength? Maybe I'm wrong.

[dgreenwood]

I think SS and similar programs focus on strength and tell you that the mass will come along with the strength automatically and you'll be better off in the long run. You can gain the mass and size without all of the strength with hypertrophy and I think it is considered to be easier. Strength vs hypertrophy training is the main reason elite power lifters are considered to be stronger than elite bodybuilders.

If you want to be big but aren't as concerned about being strong, I think you can do it easier than following SS, Stronglifts 5x5, 5/3/1, etc.

[MouthDR]

I think SS and similar programs focus on strength and tell you that the mass will come along with the strength automatically and you'll be better off in the long run. You can gain the mass and size without all of the strength with hypertrophy and I think it is considered to be easier. Strength vs hypertrophy training is the main reason elite power lifters are considered to be stronger than elite bodybuilders.

If you want to be big but aren't as concerned about being strong, I think you can do it easier than following SS, Stronglifts 5x5, 5/3/1, etc.

I don't really care about being big. Just bigger. And yes, there will obviously be a corresponding increase in muscle size with muscle strength. Do I want 20 inch arms? Hell no. I look great in a suit now and want to keep it that way. Do I want to be able to deadlift and squat respectable figures? Hell, YES!

So in that case, I think SS and/or 5/3/1 is just for me. Once I get settled in, and get my cage up, I'll be focused on these programs.

[abc123]

I like that 3-5 range.. Not really looking for hypertrophy, but more that density you can only get with getting stronger.. Would rather have dense, hard & strong muscle rather than puffed & soft tissue

[TrPAssasin]

I have a similar problem. I can't seem to gain no-matter how much I eat. I've even added a couple potatoes a day to what I've already been eating. I think it has to do with my training. I do Powerlifting training and I think there just isn't enough volume this far into my cycle.