Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 63

Thread: Trying to add mass to my frame - struggling!!! page 2

  1. #11
    iniQuity's Avatar
    iniQuity is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Northern NJ
    Posts
    5,718
    Quote Originally Posted by tfarny View Post
    But if you truly want to gain weight, drink a liter or more of whole milk per day.
    Yep - check your Whole Foods, mine carries full-fat grass-fed, unhomogenized, unpasteurized milk... only thing it's missing is being raw, really.

    And throw that "____ isn't primal" shit out the window, purposely going out of your way to eat a ton of food and gaining a lot of mass probably isn't primal either - unless you're preparing for famine, or for the harsh winter months, or some shit.

  2. #12
    Scott F's Avatar
    Scott F is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    932
    Like I said, personally, It's about living a long active, healthy life as one's genetics will allow. You have to work with your genetics, not around them, if that's a personal goal. Living a long active life isn't bull shit - it is exactly what Mark's goal is/was for PB. Being 55 my priorities can change toward that perspective, actually in my 40s it changed from max strength.
    Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

  3. #13
    MouthDR's Avatar
    MouthDR is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    105
    Firstly, I just want to thank you all for the input you've shared. I really appreciate it.

    Quote Originally Posted by abc123 View Post
    My personal narrative, related to experience with my body: The newer, high calorie diet / lower carb primal diet you're on is not allowing your body to hold the water that "standard fitness guru diet does.. I followed that diet as well, it comes with some gluten, wheat breads, grains, sodiums.. Contents of calories do have varying metabolic effects on bf & "weight".. I do not believe a calorie is a calorie with regards to a damaged metabolism.. You are eating cleaner calories now that your body utilizes in multiple formats.. Nutrient partioning is different in a primal calorie, than a "rice calorie", or "wheat bread calorie" that the fitness diet suggests.. Primal food is eaten, entire body benefits & sucks energy from leaving less behind for mass gain.. Those "fitness diet guru" calories could be less efficient calories that are easily "held" & "hung" in the body (specifically the carb selections) leading to easier weight gain.. I'm actually researching this as well, curious as you are.. My guess: the cleaner & more efficient the calorie, the more the body demands to store as mass gain.. Too many efficiencies the body can use a "clean calorie" for to leave anything behind that will add weight to the scale..

    Secondly, you may simply not be eating as many calories as you believe? If your carb intake is this low & you're still eating 4k calories a day, I'd be interested to see that menu.. That's a lot of calories everyday, to not include more than 70g of carbs..

    Sounds like you're cleaning your body out now, primal calories, which is a great new foundation.. If 4,000 clean calories a day isn't enough energy to add weight to your frame, you need more calories, or less burned energy.. It does apply to you..

    I personally don't have time (or want to spend the $$) for another lb/day of ribeye to keep pounding more & more calories, so I'm cutting a corner by adding in some full fat yogurt & cheese.. Just adds some calories & my body responds well to it, isn't strictly primal.. I've experiemented & decided "sugar & carbs" are not my preferred calorie booster.. I opt for fat, cheeses & yogurts assist, similar to you looking for that variety
    I've been paleo since Halloween last year so it's been sometime. Since that time, I've added about 10-15 lbs of mass, all the while leaning out to the BF% I'm at now, so it hasn't been a total loss. The issue in the last several months has been that I have stagnated and am stuck at this weight and size for the last 6 months or so.

    I have to be honest that I really am at that caloric intake and carb intake. And as I stated previously, I may be eating even fewer carbs than that. My only sources of carbs are green, leafy vegetables (eat them most with respect to vegetables), avocados, coconut , some cucumber/onion/tomato, and next to no fruit. If anything, I may have a piece of fruit PWO but even that isn't a common occurrence.

    Dairy would definitely be something I would love to add but with respect to my belief in the paleo lifestyle, I can't add it. Not to mention, some of the evidence (albeit conflicting at times) to it's cancer potential, and the fact that North American dairy is very high in estrogen. Don't get me wrong, I do miss cheese and yogurt and have considered using goat milk varieties but for now, it isn't something I want to add.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott F View Post
    That's what I thought given you say you're eating that many calories. I don't know how much volume you're doing but you are spending too much time in the gym. Here's your possible problems: 1 you've maxed your genetic potential. 2) you are giving yourself enough recovery time between workouts. I'm leaning to #2.

    As your muscles become bigger and stronger you are able to tax your metabolism far more heavily. Consequently, it's going to take you more time to recover between your workouts. That's why (or at least one reason) a beginning lifter seems to grow on most any workout but then they hit a plateau. In frustration they up the volume and frequency of their workouts but can't seem to break through that plateau.

    Using myself as an example: All through my 20s and 30s I struggled to get above a 300lb bench. But when I was 47 years old I was doing 365lb bench pressing and warming up with 300lb. What changed? Even though I was doing a short HIT style workout I had in my mind that a person needed to lift the same body part at least twice per week or deconditioning would negate any progress. In my late 40s I didn't care anymore and began to experiment with more rest between lifting sessions. I went to lifting only once per week per body part. A short HIT chest, shoulders, tries on Monday, legs on Wednesday, and back and bies on Friday.

    A problem then set in: all those years of lifting too often and getting bouts over training gave me some arthritis in my shoulder joints and had to back off the heavy benching.

    If I had to do it over, personally, I would focus more on muscle endurance and stamina at the sacrifice of maximum strength potential. Packing on bigger (cut) muscles and seeing the results is intoxicating....but it isn't very primal/paleolithic. You didn't give your height but 195 at under 10% bodyfat is on the upper end of an ideal primal build IMO. The modern bodybuilders, like Arnold and esp a Dorian Yates (excluding a Frank Zane) is a lousy hunter/gatherer build. Consequently, I don't think it's that great for long-term health.

    Oh and btw, I think you could eat a couple 2 or 3 sweet potatoes after your workouts to replenish your glycogen.
    Very interesting and inspiring!! Thanks for sharing!

    I think you hit that nail on the head with respect to my training. I may in fact be over-training. I've thought about stopping altogether for a couple weeks to readjust and go to something similar to what you outlined. I've just recently also started reading the Anabolic Diet and have contemplated starting that in the paleo sense. I'll see how that goes, after I have exhausted all standard paleo ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by tfarny View Post
    If you want to gain weight, eat more. Your fear of insulin is unfounded. You are, by your account, an extraordinarily healthy individual with about zero risk or getting diabetes or something. A healthy body is designed to handle carbs, and insulin is not a "bad guy" - it is an essential hormone for managing your energy use. As long as you are insulin sensitive, which you must be based on your descriptions, you have absolutely nothing to fear from the mighty sweet potato.

    Dairy is primal, but not paleo. Mark himself has dairy in moderation, and his cookbook includes butter, cheeses, etc. You might consider adding in sour cream, natural cheeses, yogurt (plain of course) and butter, at least. But if you truly want to gain weight, drink a liter or more of whole milk per day.
    As I mentioned, I would love to add in dairy again, and may consider goats milk yogurt/cheese. I'll see about that.

    Quote Originally Posted by iniQuity View Post
    Yep - check your Whole Foods, mine carries full-fat grass-fed, unhomogenized, unpasteurized milk... only thing it's missing is being raw, really.

    And throw that "____ isn't primal" shit out the window, purposely going out of your way to eat a ton of food and gaining a lot of mass probably isn't primal either - unless you're preparing for famine, or for the harsh winter months, or some shit.
    Whole Foods in Canada sucks. No grass fed butter/dairy. And they are beginning to lean heavily towards the vegan/vegetarian lifestyle.

  4. #14
    Scott F's Avatar
    Scott F is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    932
    You're welcome MouthDR. The reason lifter will drink a lot of whole milk is for the IGF1 (Insulin-like growth factor). They are trying to enhance their muscle growth. Fermented dairy, such as yogurt destroys IGF1.
    Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

  5. #15
    Zelli88's Avatar
    Zelli88 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    101
    Quote Originally Posted by MouthDR View Post
    Hey everyone, I was hoping for some help and ideas as I'm having a very difficult time adding mass to my body. I've been stuck at about 195 lbs now for the longest time, and despite my best efforts to eat as much as I can (including coconut cream protein shakes) it won't budge. That being said, I am virtually 100% paleo/primal ALL THE TIME. In fact, I would argue that I am 99.999999999999% paleo/primal. With that remaining tiny percentage beyond my control: ie. assuming the meal at a restaurant/friend's place is indeed paleo

    Anyway, I also eat pretty low carb, somewhere in the ballpark of "maybe" 70 grams a day? Roughly? Some days a bit less, some days a lot less. I only occasional eat sweet potato and never eat white potatoes. The question is, should I be worried about increasing my carb intake via sweet potato/white potato? I have a feeling I know what you guys are gonna say but I need that push to get over my fear... The idea of spiking my insulin throughout the day gives me nightmares and I guess what I really am asking for is reassurance that everything will be OK

    BTW, I should have mentioned that my caloric intake is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 3500-400 calories, and I lead a moderately active lifestyle. I'm sure I forgot something so please ask away!

    Ahh ha! I forgot to say that I am approximately 7-8% body fat, so I am rather lean at this point. This all happened from paleo, no changes otherwise, and NO caloric restriction.

    Please share your thoughts...
    Instead of focusing on macros, such as protein/carbs/fats...Focus on nutrients, or micros! Not everything to building muscle is about carbs/fat/protein..I always believe that a nutrient depleted body will never gain mass...Try adding liver, bone broth or something of the like..Eat more offal! If you eat eggs, reserve the eggshells and learn to make calcium citrate from them, among many other benefits of consuming the shells. Google it. It's not always as simple as just eating more...

    I remember people and articles mentioning a lot of bodybuilders consume liver/liver pills for its nutrient dense composition..Look into it!

  6. #16
    Kharnath's Avatar
    Kharnath is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    278
    Quote Originally Posted by MouthDR View Post
    I've been stuck at about 195 lbs now for the longest time, and despite my best efforts to eat as much as I can (including coconut cream protein shakes) it won't budge. [...] I forgot to say that I am approximately 7-8% body fat, so I am rather lean at this point.
    Lean body mass = 180 lbs
    Shredded weight (5% bodyfat) = 190 lbs

    I don't know how tall you are but you're probably very close to your genetic limit. You should consider a professional career as a natural bodybuilder.

    (how do you measure your bodyfat percentage?)

  7. #17
    MouthDR's Avatar
    MouthDR is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    105
    Quote Originally Posted by Kharnath View Post
    Lean body mass = 180 lbs
    Shredded weight (5% bodyfat) = 190 lbs

    I don't know how tall you are but you're probably very close to your genetic limit. You should consider a professional career as a natural bodybuilder.

    (how do you measure your bodyfat percentage?)
    I wish! No, I'm 6'5" tall, so no, I am not at the bodybuilding physique stage. Everyone that sees me asks if I'm a swimmer: lean, long body with very wide shoulders and narrow hips. I have my BF measured using skin calipers.

    I can't say that I am at my genetic limit. When I was in my very early 20's/late teens, I was 239 lbs with approx. 13% BF. I know what you're going to ask: what did you do then that you aren't doing now??? Truthfully, I don't know apart from the fact that I was eating the standard diets you would see in any muscle mag, along with a ton of supplements. It was a sweet ride until I blew out my shoulder and had to stop lifting for a while. But looking back, I know roughly what I was lifting and I can in many lifts, lift MORE now than I could then?! Not sure what is going on there.

    As I said before, I'm going to be very diligent and make sure I'm getting around 4000-4500 calories a day and will likely do low carb during the week, with a carb re-feed on the weekends - all paleo. We'll see how it goes!

  8. #18
    ThePrimalOhioan's Avatar
    ThePrimalOhioan is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Vista, California
    Posts
    14
    Ladies and Gentlemen,

    I've skimmed the responses and if I've missed it then I apologize for the reiteration. But lets throw back to the historical figures in the iron game when supplements, steroids, fancy machinery and even benching on a bench was non-existant (they used to do floor-pressing). What did they do to pack on muscle and strength? The answer is far more simple than it needs to be. They squatted, often and heavy. They drank milk, and a lot of it. No other workout creates a growth response in the body like squats. This method has been tested and proven for many many years. Below are great pieces of literature that would be worth the money to buy and read for just this type of program.

    1. "Super Squats" at www.ironmind.com
    2. "Beyond Bodybuilding" at www.dragondoor.com
    3. "The Stolov Squat Program" (not sure where the official site is, a Google search suffices to find the program, this is EXTREMELY intensive and not for the beginner or faint of heart)

    I personally am using "The Russian Squat Assault" from "Beyond Bodybuilding" and it's amazing.

    Throw some iron around and have fun!!!

  9. #19
    Fernaldo's Avatar
    Fernaldo is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Temecula, CA
    Posts
    889
    There is no magic here, if you are really eating 4000 calories and not gaining weight then, uh, you need to eat more. Since you have an aversion to dairy, you are going to have to find some other food to eat. Or, you could just drink some milk and eat some real carbs for 8-12 weeks and then abstain. You are caught up in the dogma (where reality doesn't exist).

    So, you are eating 4000? It ain't enough. This isn't rocket science and you're not a unique snowflake. Eat 5000, eat 6000. At some point you will start to gain weight. YNDTP

    Milk + Squats for the win.
    "The problem with quoting someone on the Internet is, you never know if it's legit" - Abraham Lincoln

  10. #20
    Zelli88's Avatar
    Zelli88 is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    101
    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    If you do decide to drink a gallon of whole milk a day make sure it's organic and from pastured cows...I made the mistake of following my brother's advice on drinking a gallon of whole milk a day, except I did it with conventional, Reiter milk (this was before I got into health, fitness and judging food quality). I gained weight, fat and muscle, but my health went down the toilet extremely fast. I did it for about a month and had to quit because of the health complications I began to encounter. I never felt sicker than I did after doing that...When I look back on it now, I just can't imagine the amount of damage I did to my body.

    If you want an amazing bodybuilding recipe, get 1 gallon of raw cow milk and add some blackstrap molasses (usually between 2-4 tbsp per gallon) to the container, shake it vigorously, and then you have an extremely nutrient dense, insulin supplying supplement. Just make sure your not sensitive to dairy and are able to handle the sugar content in both the milk and molasses.

Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •