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Thread: gut bacteria page

  1. #1
    MalPaz's Avatar
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    Primal Fuel


    http://www.wellnessresources.com/weight/articles/how_imbalanced_digestive_bacteria_cause_obesity_he art_disease/


    very interesting study...


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    Fascinating, but a little frustrating here and there.


    What exactly is a "high fat" diet, for instance? Skippy peanut butter and pie with Crisco shortening? Or ham hock soup and a coconut smoothie?


    And first they say metabolic syndrome involves too many gram positive bacteria, like lactobacillus, but later they suggest supplementing with probiotics. I thought lactobacillus was a probiotic?


    Anyway, thanks for the link.


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    MalPaz's Avatar
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    your thoughts on the fat mirrored mine!!i was hoping someone else knew more about the studies


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    Maybe someone else will chip in an opinion.


    I love it when "wiser heads" hang around.


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    From the study "Mice were fed a control (A04, Villemoisson sur Orge, France) or a high-fat, carbohydrate-free diet for 2 or 4 weeks following protocols. The diet contained 72% fat (corn oil and lard), 28% protein, and <1% carbohydrate as energy content (17). In a subset of mice, obesity and diabetes were induced by a high-fat diet and mice killed after 4 or 24 weeks."


    Bingo, corn oil.


    Also to be born in mind: mice don&#39;t do great on a high fat diet anyways. They&#39;re not really a great model for this. Rats would have been better, but still not great. The first cue that something is wrong with the model "... diabetes [was] induced by a high-fat diet...".

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    Bingo is right!


    No wonder I was frustrated. Did they specify how much corn oil compared to lard?


    I take it dogs would have been much more suited to a high-fat diet? Only I don&#39;t think any animal is suited to a corn oil diet. Homo Margarinensis?


    If diabetes was induced by a high fat diet, they can write any figure they want into their grant proposal! The farm lobby have been trying to prove that for fifty years, haven&#39;t they?


    Feeding mice corn oil ... how about feeding people only on grass? Should give some interesting results. Maybe they can feed rabbits beefsteak. I&#39;m sure they&#39;d like steak better than <shudder> powdered eggs.


    How do people think up protocols like these?


  7. #7
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    why are they studying mice? last i recall mice can eat and tolerate grains and dont take well to meat. wouldnt that be the last mammal you would want to do a study on digestion wise?


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    Molecular Grokologist's Avatar
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    Mice are a very common lab animal. Their biochemistry actually approximates ours pretty closely in most respects, and they live a while but not too long, so they&#39;re useful models for many human diseases. They&#39;re even useful for some aspects of studying metabolic syndrome. Just not those aspects that involve dietary interventions.


    Part of the problem with mice is that they&#39;re actually pretty decent at handling n-6 compared to us (since they love to eat seeds and nuts, they have to be), but they get most of their calories from carbohydrate so dietary fat has the potential to induce massive insulin resistance.


    They didn&#39;t specify how much lard, but even if it&#39;s 3/4 lard, that&#39;s a hell of a high proportion of calories from n-6 PUFA.


    PDL, it&#39;s funny you should mention feeding rabbits beefsteak. The first study that kicked off Lipid Hypothesis mk. 1 ("dietary cholesterol causes heart disease") fed purified oxidized cholesterol to rabbits (an animal whose natural diet contains ZERO cholesterol). Voila, massive atherosclerosis! Therefore cholesterol is just another one of the ways our own bodies are trying to kill us. It makes perfect sense!

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    Grokologist, I read that some of those hapless rabbits didn&#39;t die of heart disease -- they died of starvation. They couldn&#39;t choke down another bite of that stuff.


    Don&#39;t know if that&#39;s apocryphal, but it makes sense. Perhaps it was in Lierre&#39;s book.


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