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Thread: Grok was a marathoner? page

  1. #1
    nzkoobi's Avatar
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    Have been eating about 90% primal for the last three months and feeling great.


    I also love to run and average about 4/5 runs a week as well as some pilates. I have a few goals with running before I adopt a more primal approach to exercise as per Mark's concept of play, beach sprints and weight bearing activities.


    I have read Cordain's book about primal eating for athletes and am looking for people to share what they do to adapt their primal diets to take part in endurance events.


    To kick off I am eating omlettes at breakfast with silverbeet, tomatoes, capsicum and mushrooms followed by a piece of fruit. Sometimes with meat sometimes not.

    Lunch is a salad with some meat, banana, apple, carrot, sometimes some eggs as well. Dinner is what the family has including meat and potatoes and salad.


    Pre event/training food is an extra banana and maybe a couple of biscuits. Post event is banana, fruit, a few biscuits, meal as soon as possible.


    Other athletes please let us know what you do pre/post exercise.


  2. #2
    Daughter of Grok's Avatar
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    Hi nzkoobi- I run races of 50 miles and up. I am going to run my first 100 miler within the next year. I know this goes against Mark's beliefs on fitness but I have built up my body to where 50 miles doesn't phase me. This is from a combination of moving at a slow speed for an extended period of time, which would have been required by primal man if he had to relocate due to the absence of food in the surrounding area. My body seems to be built for it as I have never been injured when running 12+ hours. I do take walking breaks just to switch muscle use, and my running muscles are able to recover while I'm walking. This fast recover rate has taken years to acquire. I never run myself into the ground. I have switched over to a primal diet for several months now and so have tampered with incorporating PB with my training. I have found that I run best when I have not eaten breakfast prior to a run, I have found that this causes my digestive system to do too much work in addition to increasing blood sugar levels. The main idea is to make sure your body is in fat burning mode before running, and to keep it in fat burning mode. When this is accomplished, you have a nice slow steady burn of fuel because your body is burning fat rather than sugar. If you enter sugar burning mode, you will have cravings for sugary things, which will make it hard to stay primal, in addition to causing your body to tear apart your muscles for fuel rather than using fat. I always eat a hearty meal the night before a race, or long run of a lot of meat very dense in saturated fat (I prefer red meat the night before), I have found that the fattier the meat the night before the better run I have, then I throw in a lot of green veggies, and usually some cheese or sourcream (which I admit may or may not be the best but the general idea is to get lots of fat and protein). I am usually stuffed at this point, and not in the mood for more food, so I let my stomach settle for a few hours then that is when I get in some primal sugar to top off my sugar stores, which is usually berries. However, I don't eat them alone, I always throw in some sort of fat source, just to make sure that I don't spike my blood sugar before my run. Usually I douse my berries in yogurt, but you can do it any way you want but I would recommend some sort of fat with it. I would also recommend running barefoot or in vibram fivefingers at least once a week, this teaches you good posture, which will also help you avoid injuries.


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    Looking at you diet, you should really lay off the carbs. Stuff like biscuits and potatoes are only going to sabotage your running, you really don't need a whole lot of carbs at all. I only eat complex carbs, and have other friends who run 100+ miles without carb loading. The only reason people claim you need carbs is because it builds up your glycogen stores. However, you wont lose your glycogen stores if you're in fat burning mode, because you'll be using your fat for fuel rather than glycogen. I have found this to be true through experimentation. I run 30+ miles without feeling sore based on this principle, my body never taps into my muscles for energy. Even the leanest people have enough fat stores to sustain them for thousands of miles, it is built in to our evolutionary make-up. Hope this helps. Let me know if you have any questions as I am very jazzed on this topic.


  4. #4
    Tarlach's Avatar
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    Grok was not a marathon runner.

    The "Seven Deadly Sins"

    Grains (wheat/rice/oats etc) . . . . . Dairy (milk/yogurt/butter/cheese etc) . . . . . Nightshades (peppers/tomato/eggplant etc)
    Tubers (potato/arrowroot etc) . . . Modernly palatable (cashews/olives etc) . . . Refined foods (salt/sugars etc )
    Legumes (soy/beans/peas etc)

  5. #5
    Daughter of Grok's Avatar
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    No, I hardly doubt he was. But Homo Sapiens did migrate from Africa across the Bering Straight at a slow prolonged rate, and many Native Americans run hundreds of miles a day out of necessity. I understand if you do not agree, I think there are good arguments on both sides and from my experience some people are better suited for "long treks" than others. Running a marathon doesn't necessarily mean pounding your knees into submission by running the entire thing at a pace pushing your aerobic threshold, which is what I see a lot of people doing, in huge clodhopper shoes than throw off their form. I think there is a right and a wrong way of traveling such distances. In longer trails races, a 14-15 min/mi average is very common, which is why ultramarathoners have less of a tendency to injury than road marathoners who are adament about either losing weight or setting some record.


  6. #6
    nzkoobi's Avatar
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    This is great info thanks Daughter of Grok.


    I am choosing to run trails and long distances.


    I was wanting to find out what people actually eat before, during and after a long run. I am a slow runner - around 4 hours for a marathon and am beginning to venture into ultras. I am a 46 year old male.


    I agree with you that eating sugar only makes you want/need more of it.


    What would you eat before a run after work? I am frequently training in the early evenings. I would probably eat a banana, couple of biscuits and dink water. Cordain writes about eating carbohydrates such as fruit and eggs, applesauce with protein powder, and baby food. (p24)


  7. #7
    Daughter of Grok's Avatar
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    Your very welcome nzkoobi! Do you live in Cali? I ask this because the ulramarathon community is pretty small here, and I know most of the people in it. You will love the shift to trail ultras from road marathons, it is a world of difference and I doubt you'll ever want to go back.


    I would avoid the carbs, your body essentially processes them like sugar. My first advice would be to cut out those biscuits, and bananas are a little dense on the sugar as well, you'd be better off eating the banana after your run along with a lot of fat and protein. You'll probably need to experiment with which foods work best for you before a run, but they should be high in fat and protein. When on the Primal Blueprint Diet basically leaves you with a choice of meat, nuts, and eggs. Now, my stomach doesn't do well with running after eating a hefty slab of meat, and nuts are a little tough for the digestive system as well, so I typically eat eggs (if anything) before a run. You could throw some cheese on top if you don't react to dairy, which will give you some extra fat. If you feel the need to have some sugar, eat a few berries, but I would eat far more fat/protein if I were you. You will also need to experiment for during a run, which I have been playing with for a couple months now, since you and I run longer distances at some point you will need to eat. For me, nibbling on almonds and raisins has worked. I like them because so far they haven't felt hard to digest while running, and I can eat a little bit at a time so as not to spike my blood sugar. Raisins are very high in sugar content so I try to never eat more than a couple at a time during a run. I haven't really been able to come up with a whole lot of options in terms of what to eat that is primal during a run, if you can think of anything else that might work that I can experiment with, please let me know. I'm starting to get a little bored with almonds and raisins on long runs, it would be nice to have more options.


  8. #8
    jessher's Avatar
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    Daughter of Grok, your experience and advice is invaluable to me. I am a former endurance runner and triathlete (did 3 Ironmans, a few marathons, and one 50K) before getting on the PB bandwagon and cutting my exercise down to 2-3 hours a week of kettlebell and HIIT. I do run 5Ks for speed when I feel like it and have also done a sprint triathlon on no training recently. I don't have any desire to go back to triathlon training, but I do have some desire to return to trail running and ultras as trail running has always been my greatest love!

    I have been struggling with the decision to return to running because it is more important to me to maximize my health through diet, and if I have to eat more simple carbs to support a cardio lifestyle, I won't do it.

    However, what I am coming to realize is that marathon and triathlon are NOT the same as ultra running. Ultra running, while it is of longer distance, to me is MORE primal because the effort is more of a steady, all day pace (which is what I think our ancestry favors). So to me, there is room for both short, intense races and long, slow races as long as the training is not excessive for either.

    I guess I just need to get back to it and learn through experimentation. It's just nice to know it is being done by others and it IS possible. I have used raisins and almonds for fuel in the past, too, btw! Yum!

    Jessica


  9. #9
    nzkoobi's Avatar
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    Jessica - these thoughts are similar to my own. I love what BP lifestyle is doing for my health but I still have goals and dreams in endurance trail running.


    I am eating some carbohydrates but am interested in your almond / raisin experiences and any other during the run fuels you have tried or recommend.


    I would be grateful if you or others would post further. I am planning a 24 hour run in October (in Auckland, NZ) and am planning my eating so I may practice. So far I am thinking of potatoes, grapes, bananas, some raisin biscuits, salt in some form and some caffeine type of food and water, and some type of sports drink if I can make one or buy one which is Primal.


  10. #10
    Get Primal's Avatar
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    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification


    nzkoobi,


    I have a recipe you could try that has worked absolute wonders for me. It is wonderful for a 24 hr run assuming it is a loop format. Taking this type of food out on the trail for an ultra poses different challenges, but the loop format is perfect.


    I call it Primal Pumpkin Loaf. You can see it on my blog at www.getprimal.blogspot.com under recipes, but it consists of pumpkin, eggs, almond meal, honey and ground cinnamon. It tastes fantastic, has a great mix of carb, fat, protein, and most importantly for ultras has a very high water content so it is consumed very easily.


    My greatest problem in ultras is my stomach, but when I'm able to eat this 'natural' food the issues disappear. A lot of non-runner, non-primal eaters have tried this recipe and loved it, making it a part of their regular meal plan.


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