Going primal, but not 100% page 5

[Nady]

The bottom line to me is eat healthy, but everything in moderation. I think Mark even said in his book not to deny cravings, life is too short to get all crazy about something as simple as eating.

if you want to continue doing what you've always done because it "works", why are you even here?

Good question.

[zoebird]

I think the question is confusing. I don't really know how to answer it -- because I would say that most people tailor the PB to themselves, including how they define the 80-20 rule.

For individuals who are looking for weight loss, healing gut issues or autoimmune disease, a stricter often closer to paleo approach is what works for them. from their POV, pizza and beer equals pain and discomfort, so of course they're going to be "obsessed" with making sure that what they are doing is followed 100% so that they don't suffer.

For those who are not sick or looking for weight loss, it tends to be a matter of preference. Most of us find that, over time, what we used to really enjoy frequently (once a week or more) becomes something that we enjoy less over time. I used to have indian, thai, mexican and italian every week -- which would mean rice, naan, pizza crust or pasta. I wasn't overweight or unhealthy. I was "puffier" and not as lean (interestingly enough). And, I had digestive issues, but they weren't that major so I didn't think about them too much.

I went primal because my husband was having major gut issues and his naturopath said "no dairy, no gluten, no grains/beans if you feel you can avoid them." And so I was looking for something that would suit the whole family. I discovered paleo and PB, and we switched over within two weeks.

It wasn't hard for us, really -- we already ate very healthy anyway, just with grains and with some dairy (raw dairy, really). Now, we only get raw yogurt for the kid (from the cowshare), and we don't have grains in the house. But, once a month or so, we'll go out for thai or indian and have some rice (and sometimes naan). It's nice. you know?

Even less frequently, we'll have cake, cookies, and gelato. Gelato is a big deal here in NZ -- the competitions about it are fierce. We have three award-winning gelato places near us. We tend to get cones in the summer (dec/jan/feb), and we tend to get one every 4-6 weeks then (so that's, what? 2-3 cones per year?). It's no big deal.

Pizza here is terrible, so we don't eat it. When I was in australia, I had a good pizza with my friends (that was last weekend). It was ok, really. I probably wouldn't necessarily go back for it, but I was really hoping to have good pizza again. At home, we have "pizza quiche" about twice a month (it's pretty labor intensive for us. lol).

So, you might say that under the PB "80-20" rule, I get a healthy 20% by having about 2-3 ice cream cones a year, 4-6 pieces of cake, 8-10 cookies/other, 10-12 rice/naan/pizza crust. But when you look at it as 2 meals per day 365 days per year (which is how I eat), you're looking at 31 "meals" of these things (on the high end) vs 730 total meals. so really, food-wise, it's only, what .4% of my food intake?

For me, the harder aspect of the primal blueprint is life balance in terms of sleep and play. That's the part that I have to work on -- making sure that I get enough of both.

[magnolia1973]

No. Read the book. Google it. Ask someone smart. Theres a billion reasons not to eat grains. Thats the NUMBER ONE thing about the primal lifestyle.

I know its a part of being primal, but I believe you can be healthy and NOT primal. I do see people who eat very unprocessed foods and do fine eating grains. Shit, google any food and there are a billion reasons to not eat it. Bacon. Pork. Beef.Chicken.

I full on agree that for me, grains are a bad, bad thing. But not for everyone. No, if you have oatmeal every morning and a big slice of whole grain bread, you aren't being primal, but are you really being unhealthy, necessarily? Frankly some of what some people call primal and healthy in terms of food choices makes me a little eyerolly.

To the OP, by all means, eat pizza and beer, but its not primal and if you don't feel good or have bad results, don't blame it on primal. If I ate a pizza, I'd have heartburn and bloat for days. I don't feel deprived not having pizza or beer. Cool if you can eat it and feel great.

[Nady]

JMO, but if someone is happy with the WOE they follow and has no intention of changing, they don't go to a forum that offers support for a different WOE and then criticize the members for following that protocol. There's a term for that~

[Dr. Bork Bork]

Keep up the running, it's amazing how we don't need traditional running shoes to run, they destroy the body. Try some barefoot running at some point, it's allot fun, and the sensation is awesome.

Oh I do enjoy a totally barefoot jaunt, but it's usually on grass, around the house, or short 1 milers on pavement to help keep my feet getting stronger. I don't think I'd have the balls to pull a half marathon straight up skin. I'd be a bloody mess.

[mike_h]

Quantifying a way of eating as 50%, 80%, 90% primal is pretty pointless in my opinion.

A dog has four legs, two eyes and a tail, just like a horse, but you wouldn't say a dog is 80% horse because of those similarities.

A pizza has a bunch of primal ingredients on it, so would one think a pizza as being 0%, 30%, 50% primal?
It's all very approximate.

OP — you're of course not compelled to eat a Primal diet, but eating regular, planned, pizza, bagels and beer and considering yourself 'part primal' is a bit disingenuous. Do those things if you wish, but don't think of it as 50% primal.

[zoebird]

Yeah, i think that's sort of like an argument over definition of terms, though. Like "i need a diet category to fit into, so I"ll say primal, but really, i'm not primal." on the one side, and then on the other side you have "we will defend the definition of primal to the Death! DEATH!"

Foremost, it's really important to note that no one really cares what anyone else eats or how. But the forum is designed to help people who want to eat primally to meet certain goals that they might have learn from others how to do that (in addition to the book and blog). We can also learn how to manage social issues that we may face.

Most everyone here is running an "n=1" study on themselves to ascertain what works for them, so you'll find that some people are "100% primal" in whatever way that means, and some are more paleo, and some are a far more loose/comfortable form of primal (having pizza every week or something because they don't see it as an issue to their health). And that's just how it rolls out.

Main thing is to do what you want.

The risk, imo, of staying grainy and going primal is that -- in a way -- you're doing both high fat and high carb and there's plenty of evidence that *that* is unhealthy. But, I also wouldn't know where the "tipping point" between "this much is ok, that much is not ok and is now putting you into the danger zone (cue Top Gun Soundtrack)." That's really up for you to decide for yourself.

So, you know, you might still think we're obsessed cray-cray, but it could be that we've just been doing this longer and have our perspectives 'n stuff.

[Bob-Tao]

If you post positively you'll get positive stuff back : ). People really were just trying to be honest with you, and they're going to defend eating this way because they like it a lot. When you start saying it's obsessive or cultish, people get offended. And it's not just people here who would react that way; people generally find that kind of thing insulting.

You should check out the success story posts that Mark does on Fridays. Lots of people who are athletic beasts and then find them selves even more athletically beasty after making some changes. I mean you came here, so you know there might be something to it! Hope you stick around!

SJMC,
You are a senior member with over a thousand posts. You say people are just defending eating this way and telling the truth.
...to quote Nekron... "Pathetic Troll"..."no one here cares what you eat"..."Your retarded brain" .... "I don't debate monkeys".... if you don't see this as obsessive or cultish then maybe you don't know what a cult is. It's a place where no one is allowed to question the doctrine, or to discuss other ways of interpreting it, and anyone who does is ridiculed and driven out because they are seen as a threat to a single world view. I read an interesting FAQ on cholesterol by a former member of this forum named Griff, who quit after being on the forum for several years because after losing 100 pounds he didn't feel comfortable going the rest of the way to a normal weight. A bunch of forum bullies apparently hurled the kind of insults at him you are defending here. There seems like there's some forum members who are open minded and figure it's everyones choice to take as much or little of the program as they see fit. Others are evangelical at best and bullies at worst and seem to view the program as a religion that needs to be strictly adhered to and defended, and the heretics need to be attacked. Just my 2 cents as a newbie, make of it what you will. Grok on.

[Nady]

SJMC,
You are a senior member with over a thousand posts. You say people are just defending eating this way and telling the truth.
...to quote Nekron... "Pathetic Troll"..."no one here cares what you eat"..."Your retarded brain" .... "I don't debate monkeys".... if you don't see this as obsessive or cultish then maybe you don't know what a cult is. It's a place where no one is allowed to question the doctrine, or to discuss other ways of interpreting it, and anyone who does is ridiculed and driven out because they are seen as a threat to a single world view. I read an interesting FAQ on cholesterol by a former member of this forum named Griff, who quit after being on the forum for several years because after losing 100 pounds he didn't feel comfortable going the rest of the way to a normal weight. A bunch of forum bullies apparently hurled the kind of insults at him you are defending here. There seems like there's some forum members who are open minded and figure it's everyones choice to take as much or little of the program as they see fit. Others are evangelical at best and bullies at worst and seem to view the program as a religion that needs to be strictly adhered to and defended, and the heretics need to be attacked. Just my 2 cents as a newbie, make of it what you will. Grok on.

Most of us have to defend going grain free IRL. It would be nice if we didn't have to defend it here. I joined this board because I saw real support for a way I am forced to eat~ it isn't a 'choice' for me. One Jim Hensen is enough!

[Bob-Tao]

Most of us have to defend going grain free IRL. It would be nice if we didn't have to defend it here. I joined this board because I saw real support for a way I am forced to eat~ it isn't a 'choice' for me. One Jim Hensen is enough!

I guess being 66 and retired for 5 years I got used to not answering to anyone except my wife, and she probably figures I'm a bit weird anyway.
On a positive note, I can't believe giving up bread and cookies and rice and pasta could make such a difference in my energy level in just a few days. I woke up three hours early this morning and took a fast 1 mile walk before breakfast and wasn't even winded. Yesterday I used a rake to level out six sand piles left over from a concrete job my son did for me a few weeks ago. I feel wired and raring to go all day long. Is this normal when people start the program or will it level out as my body gets used to the new food? Thanks.