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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by abc123 View Post
    My guess & understanding..

    in the fundamental sense, assuming metabolism is perfectly fresh, healed, in balance & running pure & healthy, calories in/calories out are the only thing that matters.. My concern is, I don't know 1 person (with the exception of the immune system & digestive system of an infant) that has a metabolism that doesn't need to be healed, or consistently in the repair shop.. As you age, my guess is, it becomes impossible to run a constantly "healthy" metabolism..

    The best diet is one built to sync with your particular body, genetics, & immune system, @ that particular time.. "Listen to your body".. "Understand your body & its reactions to certain foods".. No 2 bodies are the same, we are all unique snowflakes, no absolute principle applies to the same body, all the time.. & as we eat everyday, your body adapts, inflames, changes, reacts, etc. to what you've eaten from years past..

    Do you have high blood pressure? Is there anything in your gene pool that exposes you to threats others may not be threatened by? How stressed do you get @ work? Do you have a sugar sensitivity? Do you a severe gluten intolerance & if you do, how many years of eating gluten did you endure before you realizing certain foods were creating leaky gut? How much alcohol are you drinking & how long have you drank? We all have damage, I don't know anyone who doesn't.. The question is, to what extent is your damage & how you can repair & "heal", with what foods.. All these questions affect the calories you ingest.. We are all damaged in some form or fashion.. Calories in / Calories out is so far down the list of things a "HEALTH" conscious body should concerned with.. Biggest concern: what type of foods work with my body, genetic, & lifestyle.. Then, we'll approach the "amounts" of those foods to consume..

    My advice: Learn to LISTEN to your body.. HEAL your body first (which could take years of discipline, & clean eating for your genetic) or the fundamentals mean nothing.. I have celiac & mega sugar sensitivity.. To me, sugar & gluten are the most toxic things I could put in my body bc I react horribly to it, even when consuming some fruit.. I don't think I'm alone in this, & I probably pay more attention to how my body reacts to certain foods than most.. I know the way I'm supposed to "feel" now after I eat, so I can now begin eliminating or limiting foods that don't correspond with that feeling.. Food allergies are very common but most aren't paying attention to the little red flags.. I personally battle digesting starches well.. They give me gas, bloating, & sometimes skin reaction.. Sweet potato is totally primal.. BUT, sweet potatoes do not work for me.. Higher Fat diet calms my body, I'm now realizing this after years of experimenting.. Food allergies are very common, but many think bc someone in this forum said potatoes are a great starch & eating 2lbs of them, post workout, is a great carb refeed, so it must be good for me.. WRONG.. Try it out, your digestive system may not be healed enough to digest this correctly..

    If there's anything thats constant in this life, its change.. Learn to roll with the nutritional punches.. Your body changes, it adapts, it grows, it gets sick, stressed out, it aches, it ages, & on & on.. My bodys nutrtional needs even seem to change with weather.. this is normal, & will never change.. Everything is connected, learn to feed it what it needs in different situations.. (the stoner in me is coming out

    Calories in, Calories out makes sense in a fundmental manner, but the question we should be asking is, (IMO) how can I "heal" my body? what foods "work" with my body? What foods make me healthier, digest correctly, & nourish me.. Afer we figure that out, we can then begin playing with caloric #'s & let our weight shift up & down in a healthy manner.. I've seen a lot of skinny UNHEALTHY people.. I've also seen a lot of heavier, very healthy people.. Not all "healthy" foods, make every immune system "healthier"..

    Become a master of your immune system.. Listen to your body, nail down the foods that sync with your digestive system, then you can play with the numbers, using those foods, to moderate the scale..
    +1 This has been my experience, as I've gone through the various stages of my life

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by jojohaligo View Post
    How does this contribute to the OPs original question? : )
    The OP's question has been addressed 1000 times on this forum. I'm content to sit back, eat some popcorn, and watch the fireworks

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxide View Post
    No, it's not all about calories in/calories out.

    I use this analogy. You have an electric car. You put a 2-gallon can of gas in the back seat. Does the car burn the gas? No. When the car runs out of electric fuel, does it burn the gas? No. The car demands more electricity instead, and the gas stays in the back seat.

    Our bodies are the same way. If your genes are adapted to sugar burning, then excess energy stays in your back seat as fat. Even if you burn ALL your sugar by restricting your calories, your body STILL doesn't burn the fat. Instead, it demands more sugar.* Because you're a sugar burner, your body essentially can't see the fat -- exactly like the electric car that doesn't see the can of gas. Your body can sort of burn the fat, but it's very hard and it takes a long time. By that time, you eat another sugar meal and your body gloms onto the sugar and forgets about the fat. That's why it's so hard to lose fat.

    But if you ditch the sugar -- entirely, mind you, no half-measures -- your body protests for a couple weeks (carb flu) and then your genes adapt to burning fat. THAT'S when the calorie restriction will kick in and do its magic. If you restrict your fat calories -- easy to do because fat makes you feel full -- then when your body runs out of fat fuel, it DOES see the fat sitting around your middle and in your back seat , and body says, "Hey lookie, I know what THAT is! I can burn that while I'm waiting for the next fat meal."

    That's the weight loss aspect of Primal Blueprint in a nutshell. There are other health benefits but that's a separate topic.

    -------------
    *it also doesn't help that our main source of sugar, wheat, is a mildly addictive drug. So not only does your body want wheat sugar to burn as fuel, it wants a LOT of it for the addcitve aspect. That's why it's so hard to restrict calories.

    Thank you for this interesting metaphor. It seems to work like that for me.

    I did notice in my 40s that things started to change for me. Weight came on out of nowhere. Exercise didn't seem to help at all. (Bicycle commuting--why oh why did it work for old Barbara, the 70+ old lady riding everywhere in my town, but not for me?) So I tried ever more extreme exercise. I thought I found the secret: 14 hours a day of exercise. Yay! Finally not fat (not thin either, and terribly hungry.) Then the weight gain began anew. Noooo!!!! Not fair! How on earth can you gain weight and exercise 14 hours a day?? Tried calorie restriction. No luck at ALL. Only misery, hunger, forcing myself to move more without the energy to do it. Crying over salads. Tried carb restriction. Success at last. HUGE and painful transition period. Then, plenty of energy, better mood, far less hunger, spontaneous effortless calorie restriction. Could even fast 23 hours.

    Now I'm fairly thin and finding it difficult to get to the next level without a lot of hunger. Gots me lots of shrunken fat cells yelling to fill 'em up again. Maybe all shrunken like that my leptin signaling is too reduced. Maybe at my age I'll just never look 25 again. I guess old Barbara doesn't look 25 either. I'm guessing she wouldn't be caught dead in a bikini.

    Thanks for the info on kale. I still don't get how vegans can eat it raw and eat so much of it. I guess kale chips are their way of pretending it's still raw.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    I can squat 180lbs, press 72.5lbs and deadlift 185lbs

  4. #34
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    I tried to kale make chips once. I found out it's easy to scarf an entire bunch of kale (3-4 regular servings) in one sitting. The chips also disintigrated into flakes which make my teeth look like they had green measles. I couldn't leave the house without major brushing and flossing.

    Lawyerchick, I don't want to say what I've been eating at the moment, because I have been a Very Bad Girl the past month or so. However, when I am a Good Girl, here is what I aim to eat:

    Breakfast
    Blueberry smoothie*
    2 hard-boiled eggs with a mix of kelp flakes and salt.
    2 brazil nuts.
    sometimes: 1x4 piece of kombu kelp (iodine, y'all)

    NO SNACKIES (the smoothie was not enough for me. My stomach would growl at 10:30 am. When I added the eggs I forgot about lunch)

    Lunch:
    0.3 pound of ground beef with doctored tomato sauce** OR Chicken soup***
    1/2 cup cooked veggie -- kale, green beans, red cabbage, broccoli
    1/4 cup another cooked veggie -- carrot, bell pepper, onion and mushroom
    1 square 85% Chocolate
    Tea with stevia

    NO SNACKIES (if you're in really bad straits, save the chocolate for a snack.)

    Dinner
    1/2 can canned salmon (3 oz) or 1 can sardines or 1 can tuna.
    raw munchie veggie
    Bulletproof hot cocoa (if I feel like it)**** If it's hot, I'll add stevia and True Lemon to seltzer water for a no-calorie soda.

    I haven't bothered to plug that into fitday but without the bulletproof cocoa it's about 1200-1300 calories and ~70 grams protein and oh I don't know, maybe 110 carbs(?). That's good for me to maintain with NO exercise. I believe myself to be lucky in that I don't seem to be as sensitive and gain weight on sugar carbs as other people. I still gain, but I have a lot more leeway.

    Based on your other posts, you're snacking on hard candy at work (?). If you're not careful, that could easily give you another 100 carbs of sugar, and it may even turn you back into a sugar burner.

    Because I've been a Very Bad Girl, I've been gaining a bit, and I'm sure I'm losing muscle, and I might be going back into sugar-burn mode. BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD. Next week I'm going to do a primal reset. I plan to re-primalize my home and office. Stuff myself to the gills with fat and protein. Plan for a mini carb flu. Once I'm back to fat burn, I'll decrease the calories again. Plus I need to restart some balance ball exercise videos for strength. I used to do them, then stopped because of tendonitis and a bad bug bite and depression and moving and all manner of excuses. I need to get back into it. When I get good, I put on ankle and wrist weights. I don't mind a little jumping with the balance ball, but I DESPISE PURE CARDIO.

    -------------------
    *8 ounces blueberries + 3 scoops whey powder + 1/2 cup greek yog + 1/2 cup CO milk + 14 oz green tea. Makes three smoothies.
    **coat an 8x8 pan with CO, mix 1.2 lbs ground beef + italian spices. Press flat into pan, cook 45 mins, cut into meat cubes. For sauce, saute some onion and maybe some bell pepper in butter. Mix in a can diced tomatoes (14 oz) and fresh basil leaves and pink salt. Serve over beef. Makes four servings..
    ***Take a whole 4lb chicken or chicken thighs, and cover with water with some veg broth. Boil 2 hr. Pick out all the meat. Take the broth, add diced celery carrots turnips and some other veg + parsley and salt, cook 1/2 hour. Add in chicken meat. Makes four big servings.
    ****1 heaping tablespoon cocoa powder, 1 small teaspoon CO, stevia, vanilla extract, two tablespoons butter, big cup boiling water. Let it all melt up, then use hand blender.
    Last edited by oxide; 08-08-2012 at 04:31 PM. Reason: I can't spell.
    5'0" female, 43 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Current weight: skinny-fat 106.5 lbs because of sugar cheating.

    MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by not on the rug View Post
    The OP's question has been addressed 1000 times on this forum. I'm content to sit back, eat some popcorn, and watch the fireworks
    aahahaha! I'll have to file this away for later.
    Female, age 51, 5' 9"
    SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

    Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
    2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    Can someone explain kale chips to me. What is the fascination? Is it that they are some kind of vehicle for parmesan cheese? I'll admit I've never had kale chips and I'm suspicious of their popularity. In fact, I'm suspicious of the popularity of kale as a whole. Those vegan kale salads which I've tried at potlucks are like eating gorilla leaves. Seriously, kale is the decoration around salad bars, not real food. The exception is black kale which is pretty good when stir fried.

    I was at Costco earlier today and there is a whole cookbook there devoted specifically to kale (I didn't buy it). And I have just had kale chips for the first time at my niece's just yesterday and my verdict is...meh.
    Female, age 51, 5' 9"
    SW - 183 (Jan 22, 2012), CW - 159, GW - healthy.

    Met my 2012 goals by losing 24 pounds.
    2013 goals are to get fit and strong!

  7. #37
    Scott F's Avatar
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    it's both sugar/starch and calories in/out. IOW it's leptin/insulin response to high GI carbs and the affects on hunger


    Would I be putting a grain-feed cow on a fad diet if I took it out of the feedlot and put it on pasture eating the grass nature intended?

  8. #38
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    That's a really good video. Thanks for posting it.

    If it weren't for hunger getting in the way the whole calorie balance thing would be so easy. So why are we hungry? I think that J. Stanton does a really good job of explaining.

    Index (Start Here) - GNOLLS.ORG
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    I can squat 180lbs, press 72.5lbs and deadlift 185lbs

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxide View Post
    I tried to kale make chips once. I found out it's easy to scarf an entire bunch of kale (3-4 regular servings) in one sitting. The chips also disintigrated into flakes which make my teeth look like they had green measles. I couldn't leave the house without major brushing and flossing.

    Lawyerchick, I don't want to say what I've been eating at the moment, because I have been a Very Bad Girl the past month or so. However, when I am a Good Girl, here is what I aim to eat:

    Breakfast
    Blueberry smoothie*
    2 hard-boiled eggs with a mix of kelp flakes and salt.
    2 brazil nuts.
    sometimes: 1x4 piece of kombu kelp (iodine, y'all)

    NO SNACKIES (the smoothie was not enough for me. My stomach would growl at 10:30 am. When I added the eggs I forgot about lunch)

    Lunch:
    0.3 pound of ground beef with doctored tomato sauce** OR Chicken soup***
    1/2 cup cooked veggie -- kale, green beans, red cabbage, broccoli
    1/4 cup another cooked veggie -- carrot, bell pepper, onion and mushroom
    1 square 85% Chocolate
    Tea with stevia

    NO SNACKIES (if you're in really bad straits, save the chocolate for a snack.)

    Dinner
    1/2 can canned salmon (3 oz) or 1 can sardines or 1 can tuna.
    raw munchie veggie
    Bulletproof hot cocoa (if I feel like it)**** If it's hot, I'll add stevia and True Lemon to seltzer water for a no-calorie soda.

    I haven't bothered to plug that into fitday but without the bulletproof cocoa it's about 1200-1300 calories and ~70 grams protein and oh I don't know, maybe 110 carbs(?). That's good for me to maintain with NO exercise. I believe myself to be lucky in that I don't seem to be as sensitive and gain weight on sugar carbs as other people. I still gain, but I have a lot more leeway.

    Based on your other posts, you're snacking on hard candy at work (?). If you're not careful, that could easily give you another 100 carbs of sugar, and it may even turn you back into a sugar burner.

    Because I've been a Very Bad Girl, I've been gaining a bit, and I'm sure I'm losing muscle, and I might be going back into sugar-burn mode. BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAD. Next week I'm going to do a primal reset. I plan to re-primalize my home and office. Stuff myself to the gills with fat and protein. Plan for a mini carb flu. Once I'm back to fat burn, I'll decrease the calories again. Plus I need to restart some balance ball exercise videos for strength. I used to do them, then stopped because of tendonitis and a bad bug bite and depression and moving and all manner of excuses. I need to get back into it. When I get good, I put on ankle and wrist weights. I don't mind a little jumping with the balance ball, but I DESPISE PURE CARDIO.

    -------------------
    *8 ounces blueberries + 3 scoops whey powder + 1/2 cup greek yog + 1/2 cup CO milk + 14 oz green tea. Makes three smoothies.
    **coat an 8x8 pan with CO, mix 1.2 lbs ground beef + italian spices. Press flat into pan, cook 45 mins, cut into meat cubes. For sauce, saute some onion and maybe some bell pepper in butter. Mix in a can diced tomatoes (14 oz) and fresh basil leaves and pink salt. Serve over beef. Makes four servings..
    ***Take a whole 4lb chicken or chicken thighs, and cover with water with some veg broth. Boil 2 hr. Pick out all the meat. Take the broth, add diced celery carrots turnips and some other veg + parsley and salt, cook 1/2 hour. Add in chicken meat. Makes four big servings.
    ****1 heaping tablespoon cocoa powder, 1 small teaspoon CO, stevia, vanilla extract, two tablespoons butter, big cup boiling water. Let it all melt up, then use hand blender.
    Thank you so much for the detailed information. I have stopped eating hard candy at work, and my lower belly is flatter as a result and thanking for that, I am sure . Anywho thanks again!

  10. #40
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    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    Take 2 people on 2000 calories.

    Person 1: Pizzas, sodas, chips, popcorn, bread, cereal bowls, spaghetti, lettuce, and regular yogurt (with sugar). An equal division of each.

    Person 2: Blueberries, plain Greek Yogurt, Steaks, diet soda, nuts, milk, cabbage, apples, chicken liver. An equal division of each.

    Same amount of calories. Assume that all else being equal i.e. no inherited disease, equal activity, no supplementation, etc. I bet you person 2 comes off MUCH better--and I've even included stuff like diet soda, and dairy, and nuts that (some) think is no good. This tells me it's not JUST about calories, though of course they matter.

    Even if one loses wait on calories on a SAD, probably they're hungry a lot AND they'll be skinny-fat.

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