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Thread: Is it really about low carb or calories in/out? page 3

  1. #21
    VeggieLover's Avatar
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    But if it comes down to calorie restriction isn't it better to eat a vegan diet?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nady View Post
    By 'seasoned' do you mean experienced, or old? I sort of qualify with both, I think~ anyway, it's easy for someone in their 20's to say CICO is the only way, even at 30 it still works for most people. But for me, somewhere around 40, my system started processing certain foods differently. Whether I lost the 'forgiving' nature of youth, or just outgrew the 'instant energy' needs, my body started to conserve. It's sometimes called the *middle age spread* but basically, even people that have never had a weight problem, discover that their weight/body composition changes even though their eating habits/CI have not.

    You'll read over and over here that's it CICO and composition doesn't matters, but those posts are mostly written by 20something members and for them, it's still true. For me, at 62, the kind of CI makes a BIG difference! My body is not so forgiving~ I have to watch the carbs.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    Can someone explain kale chips to me. What is the fascination? Is it that they are some kind of vehicle for parmesan cheese? I'll admit I've never had kale chips and I'm suspicious of their popularity. In fact, I'm suspicious of the popularity of kale as a whole. Those vegan kale salads which I've tried at potlucks are like eating gorilla leaves. Seriously, kale is the decoration around salad bars, not real food. The exception is black kale which is pretty good when stir fried.
    Kale is the most nutrient-dense vegetable known. It's definitely real food, but it's not supposed to be eaten raw for sure. You have to cook the hell out of it to get the nutrition out. I would never eat a raw kale salad. First off, eww, second, digestive issues abound. But take some kale and fry it in coconut oil with sliced bananas, sweet potatoes, garlic, ginger, hot peppers, chicken breast and tamari. Whoa.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeldingHank View Post
    I would like to test this. LOL
    Done.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by VeggieLover View Post
    But if it comes down to calorie restriction isn't it better to eat a vegan diet?
    No. It isn't just about calorie restriction, it's also about the nutrients in those calories. Vegan is lacking on just too many levels to be healthy for long term.
    Last edited by Nady; 08-08-2012 at 12:43 PM.

  5. #25
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    Also, if the claim is that eating fat/protein/low carb helps your body burn fat, isn't it fair to assume it is just the fact that you are in a caloric deficit, which promotes body fat loss? In that case maybe you can lose weight successfully on a different diet?

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    Can someone explain kale chips to me. What is the fascination? Is it that they are some kind of vehicle for parmesan cheese? I'll admit I've never had kale chips and I'm suspicious of their popularity. In fact, I'm suspicious of the popularity of kale as a whole. Those vegan kale salads which I've tried at potlucks are like eating gorilla leaves. Seriously, kale is the decoration around salad bars, not real food. The exception is black kale which is pretty good when stir fried.
    I bought some kale to expand my knowledge of different kinds of greens because I didn't much like greens. Kale is rated as one of the most nutritious foods. I hated it. I didn't want to throw the rest away and wondered if I could make chips. I googled "kale chips" and sure enough, a gazillion recipes.

    Lesson learned: if you hate a veggie, slice it thin, dehydrate it in oven, and pour salt on it.

  7. #27
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    No, it's not all about calories in/calories out.

    I use this analogy. You have an electric car. You put a 2-gallon can of gas in the back seat. Does the car burn the gas? No. When the car runs out of electric fuel, does it burn the gas? No. The car demands more electricity instead, and the gas stays in the back seat.

    Our bodies are the same way. If your genes are adapted to sugar burning, then excess energy stays in your back seat as fat. Even if you burn ALL your sugar by restricting your calories, your body STILL doesn't burn the fat. Instead, it demands more sugar.* Because you're a sugar burner, your body essentially can't see the fat -- exactly like the electric car that doesn't see the can of gas. Your body can sort of burn the fat, but it's very hard and it takes a long time. By that time, you eat another sugar meal and your body gloms onto the sugar and forgets about the fat. That's why it's so hard to lose fat.

    But if you ditch the sugar -- entirely, mind you, no half-measures -- your body protests for a couple weeks (carb flu) and then your genes adapt to burning fat. THAT'S when the calorie restriction will kick in and do its magic. If you restrict your fat calories -- easy to do because fat makes you feel full -- then when your body runs out of fat fuel, it DOES see the fat sitting around your middle and in your back seat , and body says, "Hey lookie, I know what THAT is! I can burn that while I'm waiting for the next fat meal."

    That's the weight loss aspect of Primal Blueprint in a nutshell. There are other health benefits but that's a separate topic.

    -------------
    *it also doesn't help that our main source of sugar, wheat, is a mildly addictive drug. So not only does your body want wheat sugar to burn as fuel, it wants a LOT of it for the addcitve aspect. That's why it's so hard to restrict calories.
    Last edited by oxide; 08-08-2012 at 10:09 AM.
    5'0" female, 43 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Current weight: skinny-fat 106.5 lbs because of sugar cheating.

    MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    Can someone explain kale chips to me. What is the fascination? Is it that they are some kind of vehicle for parmesan cheese? I'll admit I've never had kale chips and I'm suspicious of their popularity. In fact, I'm suspicious of the popularity of kale as a whole. Those vegan kale salads which I've tried at potlucks are like eating gorilla leaves. Seriously, kale is the decoration around salad bars, not real food. The exception is black kale which is pretty good when stir fried.
    I didn't know kale *could* be eaten raw. Raw, its a garnish. Rubbed in your favorite fat/oil and sprinkled with good salt and roasted until dry and crispy makes a yummy snack. The little salty crumbles left on the plate are nice sprinkled on an omelet or whatever other roasted veggie you're serving next
    Sandra
    *My obligatory intro

    There are no cheat days. There are days when you eat primal and days you don't. As soon as you label a day a cheat day, you're on a diet. Don't be on a diet. ~~ Fernaldo

    DAINTY CAN KISS MY PRIMAL BACKSIDE. ~~ Crabcakes

  9. #29
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    My guess & understanding..

    in the fundamental sense, assuming metabolism is perfectly fresh, healed, in balance & running pure & healthy, calories in/calories out are the only thing that matters.. My concern is, I don't know 1 person (with the exception of the immune system & digestive system of an infant) that has a metabolism that doesn't need to be healed, or consistently in the repair shop.. As you age, my guess is, it becomes impossible to run a constantly "healthy" metabolism..

    The best diet is one built to sync with your particular body, genetics, & immune system, @ that particular time.. "Listen to your body".. "Understand your body & its reactions to certain foods".. No 2 bodies are the same, we are all unique snowflakes, no absolute principle applies to the same body, all the time.. & as we eat everyday, your body adapts, inflames, changes, reacts, etc. to what you've eaten from years past..

    Do you have high blood pressure? Is there anything in your gene pool that exposes you to threats others may not be threatened by? How stressed do you get @ work? Do you have a sugar sensitivity? Do you a severe gluten intolerance & if you do, how many years of eating gluten did you endure before you realizing certain foods were creating leaky gut? How much alcohol are you drinking & how long have you drank? We all have damage, I don't know anyone who doesn't.. The question is, to what extent is your damage & how you can repair & "heal", with what foods.. All these questions affect the calories you ingest.. We are all damaged in some form or fashion.. Calories in / Calories out is so far down the list of things a "HEALTH" conscious body should concerned with.. Biggest concern: what type of foods work with my body, genetic, & lifestyle.. Then, we'll approach the "amounts" of those foods to consume..

    My advice: Learn to LISTEN to your body.. HEAL your body first (which could take years of discipline, & clean eating for your genetic) or the fundamentals mean nothing.. I have celiac & mega sugar sensitivity.. To me, sugar & gluten are the most toxic things I could put in my body bc I react horribly to it, even when consuming some fruit.. I don't think I'm alone in this, & I probably pay more attention to how my body reacts to certain foods than most.. I know the way I'm supposed to "feel" now after I eat, so I can now begin eliminating or limiting foods that don't correspond with that feeling.. Food allergies are very common but most aren't paying attention to the little red flags.. I personally battle digesting starches well.. They give me gas, bloating, & sometimes skin reaction.. Sweet potato is totally primal.. BUT, sweet potatoes do not work for me.. Higher Fat diet calms my body, I'm now realizing this after years of experimenting.. Food allergies are very common, but many think bc someone in this forum said potatoes are a great starch & eating 2lbs of them, post workout, is a great carb refeed, so it must be good for me.. WRONG.. Try it out, your digestive system may not be healed enough to digest this correctly..

    If there's anything thats constant in this life, its change.. Learn to roll with the nutritional punches.. Your body changes, it adapts, it grows, it gets sick, stressed out, it aches, it ages, & on & on.. My bodys nutrtional needs even seem to change with weather.. this is normal, & will never change.. Everything is connected, learn to feed it what it needs in different situations.. (the stoner in me is coming out

    Calories in, Calories out makes sense in a fundmental manner, but the question we should be asking is, (IMO) how can I "heal" my body? what foods "work" with my body? What foods make me healthier, digest correctly, & nourish me.. Afer we figure that out, we can then begin playing with caloric #'s & let our weight shift up & down in a healthy manner.. I've seen a lot of skinny UNHEALTHY people.. I've also seen a lot of heavier, very healthy people.. Not all "healthy" foods, make every immune system "healthier"..

    Become a master of your immune system.. Listen to your body, nail down the foods that sync with your digestive system, then you can play with the numbers, using those foods, to moderate the scale..
    Last edited by abc123; 08-08-2012 at 10:27 AM.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxide View Post
    No, it's not all about calories in/calories out.

    I use this analogy. You have an electric car. You put a 2-gallon can of gas in the back seat. Does the car burn the gas? No. When the car runs out of electric fuel, does it burn the gas? No. The car demands more electricity instead, and the gas stays in the back seat.

    Our bodies are the same way. If your genes are adapted to sugar burning, then excess energy stays in your back seat as fat. Even if you burn ALL your sugar by restricting your calories, your body STILL doesn't burn the fat. Instead, it demands more sugar.* Because you're a sugar burner, your body essentially can't see the fat -- exactly like the electric car that doesn't see the can of gas. Your body can sort of burn the fat, but it's very hard and it takes a long time. By that time, you eat another sugar meal and your body gloms onto the sugar and forgets about the fat. That's why it's so hard to lose fat.

    But if you ditch the sugar -- entirely, mind you, no half-measures -- your body protests for a couple weeks (carb flu) and then your genes adapt to burning fat. THAT'S when the calorie restriction will kick in and do its magic. If you restrict your fat calories -- easy to do because fat makes you feel full -- then when your body runs out of fat fuel, it DOES see the fat sitting around your middle and in your back seat , and body says, "Hey lookie, I know what THAT is! I can burn that while I'm waiting for the next fat meal."

    That's the weight loss aspect of Primal Blueprint in a nutshell. There are other health benefits but that's a separate topic.

    -------------
    *it also doesn't help that our main source of sugar, wheat, is a mildly addictive drug. So not only does your body want wheat sugar to burn as fuel, it wants a LOT of it for the addcitve aspect. That's why it's so hard to restrict calories.
    Oxide, we are the same height. I am pretty curious about your diet and exercise information. I am trying to get to your starting weight as my end goal. Right now I am 139-142 depending on the day. What does your typical diet look like and what do you normal do excercise wise? thanks!

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