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  1. #11
    Neckhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie View Post
    I've read some studies that seem to find a correlation between the number of male children a mother gives birth to, and the subsequent boys having a higher probability of being gay. The thought is that the mother builds more antibodies to each successive male fetus (because the male genetic map is "foreign" to the mother's immune system), which affects the male child's brain development.

    As far as an evolutionary reason for this, I suppose there could be some advantage for not passing on the same male genes--to ensure as much diversity as possible. Only the older brothers would pass on the genetics, not the homosexual siblings born later. You'd have fewer children in the next generation with those similar genetics.

    Another interesting aside to the above is that the homosexual siblings born later are right-handed more often than the general population. So whatever the biological brain development mechanism is, it also seems to affect handedness.

    Fraternal birth order and the maternal immune hypothesis of male homosexuality

    The association between the fraternal birth order effect in male homosexuality and other markers of human sexual orientation

    Of course, this correlation doesn't hold true all the time, and doesn't explain lesbian women at all.
    Actually this makes a lot of sense in My Real World. I know of a group of siblings that became noticeable effeminate from sibling 1-4. Kind of odd. None where gay, but there was obviious changes in aggression / testosterone and musculature.

  2. #12
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    [QUOTE=Goldie;921011
    Of course, this correlation doesn't hold true all the time, and doesn't explain lesbian women at all.[/QUOTE]

    I've met very few lesbians, but a "high" percentage seemed to have had sex or be willing to have sex with a male.....just saying.....maybe some sociological roots here.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    I've met very few lesbians, but a "high" percentage seemed to have had sex or be willing to have sex with a male.....just saying.....maybe some sociological roots here.
    Actually, there are many of male homosexuals in the same boat. Gay men who had girlfriends as young men because they were in the closet and were trying to be/act as straight as possible, and even those who have married and come out as gay many years later. It still happens.
    IMO much of this is/was due to family/cultural social pressure to conform to 'straight' ideals, and fear of bigotry and discrimination.

    I have known lesbians that did the same, but then moved on and were no longer interested in men in any sexual capacity. And many that never had any sex with men at all. Just like there are many gay men who have never bothered with sex with a woman.

    But I think it's important to understand that growing up in a world where the vast majority of the messages one hears about their sexual preference is that it is "wrong" probably leads to more experimenting in the attempt to be "normal" than would happen if it was acceptable to just be who you are regardless.

    I'm a bi-sexual (who tends to favor women) woman and that is how I was affected.
    There were other gay people in my small high school but we were all to afraid of being outed to even speak to each other.
    We all pretended to be 'straight'.
    I know it's changing, but it still isn't 100% acceptable to be openly gay, so social pressures are still pushing young people to act this way if they don't have the support of the people in their own home.

    Of course... I actually think that the original question here is a bit ridiculous because it reduces human sexuality to "homosexual" and "heterosexual". Sexuality is much more diverse and complicated than a "this OR that" statement.
    Last edited by cori93437; 08-04-2012 at 10:35 PM.
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  4. #14
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    I believe that evolutionary theory deals with this by the fact that you share genes not only with your kids but your relative's kids - if a gay man helps his nieces and nephews survive he's still passing on his genes. It is also important to realize that many,many traits are not the product of natural selection itself but instead an accidental byproduct of selection for something else.
    Men - horny, not particularly picky, low / no consequences for wasting some seed here and there, etc. - it doesn't seem like homosexual behavior is necessarily a "trait" that is "selected for" as much as a byproduct of some basic common dude characteristics. Maybe in Grok's day (god I hate using that word) it was no big deal to have a little man-man action just to pass time on the hunt, male bonding and all, but you'd still head home to your wife(s) and get plenty of action there. Plenty of today's societies have some version of this behavior and they don't refer to it as "gay." What we, today, call "gay" is probably partly genetic tendencies and partly a social construction.
    But what do I know?
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  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    Because it feels so good to get butt banged?
    Homosexual women don't generally do a lot of "butt banging" with each other, but it is not completely unheard of.
    And what about tops... they like to butt bang, not be butt banged...
    Also... lots of straight guys enjoy butt banging ladies but not getting butt banged themselves, and many ladies enjoy a good butt bang from their guy.
    Oh, and lets not forget the straight men who are into a bit of kink and like to be butt banged by a lady (often a a girlfriend or wife) wearing a strap-on who is giving out the butt banging. (It's called pegging if you are interested.)
    The ladies involved generally quite enjoy doing the butt banging as well in that situation. Modern toys are a good thing I suppose.

    What was your context for "butt banged" again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Bork Bork View Post
    um... no. Even a rectal exam is, well... unpleasant. And they're using extra lube!
    Different strokes for different folks... literally.
    I used to have a female friend who swore to me that was the only way she could orgasm... and that she had multiples that way every time. *shrug*
    I do understand that lube is very important to the process though.
    Last edited by cori93437; 08-04-2012 at 10:50 PM.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
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  6. #16
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    If you want to discuss this from an evolutionary perspective, why not extend the discussion to other species (like birds) where it exists?

    There are many documented instances of homosexual animals, predominantly males if memory serves me correctly.
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    The Kinsey scale is interesting to me. Kinsey scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I know myself and many other women I've encountered have desired to have sex with other women without necessarily considering themselves bi/gay. I'd have sex with a woman and I think women are generally more appealing . However, I have no emotional feelings attached. Sexuality is weird.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    If you want to discuss this from an evolutionary perspective, why not extend the discussion to other species (like birds) where it exists?

    There are many documented instances of homosexual animals, predominantly males if memory serves me correctly.
    Homosexual females are quite clearly represented in the animal kingdom as well.
    I have actually been meaning to get this book...
    Amazon.com: Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity (9780312192396): Bruce Bagemihl: Books

    The book description reads:

    Homosexuality in its myriad forms has been scientifically documented in more than 450 species of mammals, birds, reptiles, insects, and other animals worldwide. Biological Exuberance is the first comprehensive account of the subject, bringing together accurate, accessible, and nonsensationalized information. Drawing upon a rich body of zoological research spanning more than two centuries, Bruce Bagemihl shows that animals engage in all types of nonreproductive sexual behavior. Sexual and gender expression in the animal world displays exuberant variety, including same-sex courtship, pair-bonding, sex, and co-parenting—even instances of lifelong homosexual bonding in species that do not have lifelong heterosexual bonding.

    Part 1, "A Polysexual, Polygendered World," begins with a survey of homosexuality, transgender, and nonreproductive heterosexuality in animals and then delves into the broader implications of these findings, including a valuable perspective on human diversity. Bagemihl also examines the hidden assumptions behind the way biologists look at natural systems and suggests a fresh perspective based on the synthesis of contemporary scientific insights with traditional knowledge from indigenous cultures.

    Part 2, "A Wondrous Bestiary," profiles more than 190 species in which scientific observers have noted homosexual or transgender behavior. Each profile is a verbal and visual "snapshot" of one or more closely related bird or mammal species, containing all the documentation required to support the author's often controversial conclusions.

    Lavishly illustrated and meticulously researched, filled with fascinating facts and astonishing descriptions of animal behavior, Biological Exuberance is a landmark book that will change forever how we look at nature.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuineaPigQueen View Post
    The Kinsey scale is interesting to me. Kinsey scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I know myself and many other women I've encountered have desired to have sex with other women without necessarily considering themselves bi/gay. I'd have sex with a woman and I think women are generally more appealing . However, I have no emotional feelings attached. Sexuality is weird.
    And there is a TEST for it...
    Kinsey Scale Test

    Incidentally, I scored a 3... "Equally heterosexual and homosexual".
    Fairly accurate I'd say.
    “You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist.”
    ~Friedrich Nietzsche
    And that's why I'm here eating HFLC Primal/Paleo.


  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by parrottrl View Post
    Honestly, I've always thought that they provided the glue that made ancient tribes work and communicate socially, acting as match-makers and peace-makers in early societies where heterosexuals were too locked into procreation and strict gender roles. The ability to sit by both firesides, if you get my meaning. Very useful people to have around, even if they weren't producing the usual litters than straight people of the time were producing.
    Based on what?
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