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Thread: Whole grains in small measures are perfectly paleo. page 2

  1. #11
    JoanieL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    We can quibble about paleo or non paleo until the grass fed cows come home but, Warmbear, IIRC you are trying to shift some pounds? If so, grains are going to slow you down. They displace other more nutrient dense food options and skew your macros toward carbs.
    That.

    I consider them empty calories. Quinoa is a seed, so that should be primal. But it's still got about 26 gms of carbs in a quarter cup (uncooked). If you're aiming at <100 gms of carbs in a day to aid satiety and weight loss, that's a big chunk of it for not much food and one that could make you feel hungry.

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    On the other hand, if they make you feel more sated, and happy, and your weight loss goes as planned, go for it, and you can find the label to call your diet later. In terms of satiety, I personally find that legumes are a better option than grains.

    Whole grains as opposite to processed bakery goods are not hunger inducing per se, but nutrient game can make them either good to add or bad to add, and it all can change depending on the level of exertion.
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    In Loren Cordain's research he looked at what actual hunter-gatherers ate, those alive today and the archaeological records of those in the past and he found that very few cultures actually ate grains (oats, wheat, barley, rye, corn, rice) in any appreciable quantity. They were usually eaten under duress during times of famine. Also, he demonstrates that they are nutritionally poor for their calories compared to other foods, and that cultures that adopted grains as a major portion of their diet suffered shorter stature, greater infant mortality, tooth decay and shorter lives. I suppose if you've met all your nutritional requirements and simply need more calories, grains are a good way to go. In fact, were I planning to hike another one of the long trails, I would probably use grains as filler in my meals to help me get more calories. But on a day-to-day basis, I can't see any real reason to consume them regularly.
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    Diamond has book sthat are more thorough and exhaustive than Cordaine. Grain is inferior as a food source for a hunter-gatherer, but it was the first junk food humanity discovered - it has the potential to be cheap and super-abundant. Just like it is today. However, there is a difference in grain-dominated diet of a malnourished person, and grain as a part of a varied diet. Anyway, self-experiment away These diets (paleo and primal), despite their catchy titles are not truly copies of paleolithic man food intake, and cannot be. They are an attempt to find the best food source in a modern world to help prosperous people deal with food super-availability to the fortunate few.
    Last edited by Leida; 08-02-2012 at 10:50 AM.
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    Neither 'small game' nor tubers are more readily available than grain; geographically, likely not being even available. Small game, lol. Try slugs and worms and insects and predator's leavings, that's more likely daily fare than an antelope.... Look, humanity turned to grain for a reason... they needed to eat, not because they thought about screwing up their descendants thousands of years down the road.
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    Plentiful, yes, accessible to humanity - not so much. We have expanded beyond our place in the food chain a huge deal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    That.

    I consider them empty calories. Quinoa is a seed, so that should be primal. But it's still got about 26 gms of carbs in a quarter cup (uncooked). If you're aiming at <100 gms of carbs in a day to aid satiety and weight loss, that's a big chunk of it for not much food and one that could make you feel hungry.
    Wheat, barley, rye, oats etc are all seeds as well. As are beans, peas, lentils etc. if anything, seeds are not primal or paleo, it's in the best interest of the plant to not be edible or digestible.
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    Thank you, Elaine. I'll go do some research to further my understanding.

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    Paleo Diet Myths - YouTube

    This fellow is someone I know from long experience as a knowledgeable and capable forager and botanist. I suggest you give the video a gander.

    Before you suggest I need to read PB and Robb's book, know that I have. My issue is with the lack of understanding about what foods really were paleo back in the day as opposed to what modern authors think is paleo. I forage a good deal for my food, have for years and know what going hungry really means.

    Some folks go on about how our ancestors would not have eaten them but think about it, grains can be collected and stored for lean times. ( Winter is coming ) No they may not have been a major part of our diet but I believe they did play a role. Someone said who would eat grains if they had animals to feast on and I am a bit suspicious of their understanding of what it takes to gather enough food, animal plant or otherwise to feed the clan. I hunt, a lot, Squirrels, rabbits, pigeons, when possible, groundhogs, deer in season, ducks, geese, partridge, etc with a bow normally and a slingshot often. Do you have any idea how hard it is to gather animals to eat? Do you have any idea how often you come home with just a brace of birds and a squirrel or two to feed your family?

    Try bugs, see how far they take you if you would rather do that than eat grains. Faster to hunt small game or eat some tubers? really? Assuming the game was there and the gods granted you the chance to catch them, and assuming tubers were in season then yes they would be easier than some of the things you can do with grains but not if you figure in that you may have a rawhide box of wild rice in your stores and it takes less time to make a porridge or just roast up the grain while waiting for the hunters to come home.

    I assure you being a hunter/gatherer is a unstable and work intensive occupation, you never know if the game will be there today and if you can add a handful of wild rice, amaranth, oats etc to the pot, then you have than many more calories to keep going. So lacking personal experience with actual HG groups, I have to go on what I know works and adding rough grains will thicken stews and soups and make the food go farther.

    Maybe they did not grind mass amounts into flour and live on bread but if there was grains that could be harvested, cooked and eaten in the area, I am certain they would have used them. Think winter, cause dried booffalo gets old fast.

    Yes I have weight to loose, so I limit the grain intake a lot but I like the taste and texture in soups and stews. I like oats as a part of the stuffing and rice can spread the food I do have farther, I cant eat wheat, makes me sick so I avoid it. Legumes make me fart for days so yeah not so much.

    We romanticize Grok too much I think because we dont understand what a true HG has to do to stave off starvation for him and his clan and his children. Forage your food, then tell me grok would not have used everything he could have when he came home to hungry kids, again.
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    Leida's Avatar
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    I think it is not so much the romantic notion as different ideals.

    Paleo/Primal diet as a way to identify and consume foods that lead to optimal health and performance based on the analysis of the natural human diet, and allowing neolitic additions that did not change the nourishing quality is one way to look at it. On the other hand if you want to model your diet on the idea that anything that was modified from a natural state after the on-set of agriculture is bad for a human being....

    Basically, whatever concept you accept will lead to your selection of food groups. Then comes self-experimentation. Myself, I am of an opinion that whole foods are a better approach for me personally, so I do not have to discard legumes or quark because on the planes of Africa they did not sow or milked the zebras. I am also not about to eat worms or honey, because first creeps me out, and the second causes me to break out....
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