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  1. #1
    CaveWeirdo's Avatar
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    Long term ketosis

    Primal Fuel
    I've been Primal for 5 months and I have noticed some interesting changes in that time. I've had some ups and downs in how I felt, but my weight loss has been steady throughout - 33lbs so far, yay!

    1st month - craved snacks between meals and went a bit mad with fruit and dark chocolate.
    2nd and 3rd month - stopped needing to snack between meals and found intermittent fasting easy to do.
    4th month - had some strong reactions to gluten/lactose cheats, felt awful and found that very-low-carb made me feel better very quickly.
    Now - I'm feeling great and feel naturally drawn to eating low carb, although I do eat plenty of vegetables and a portion of fruit every day. I feel that I'm in ketosis most of the time (I don't use ketostix but I get the funny breath that I got with Atkins, way back when) and don't get kicked out of it for long - for example I had some pick 'n' mix sweets as a rare 'naughty' treat a few days ago and seemed to be back in ketosis the next day(?)

    I know Primal isn't necessarily low carb, and I never really went into this with the intention of re-enacting my previous Atkins success. But I seem to naturally thrive on ketosis. I sometimes feel a bit sluggish first thing in the morning but my energy levels are more stable throughout the day than they are on higher carbs. I don't have any other negative side effects apart from my breath tasting different, which doesn't really bother me as others (including a dentist) have said it's not noticeable.

    So I was wondering, do you think it's ok to stay in ketosis regularly for the long term? Or might it be better for my health/weight loss to deliberately have a break from it sometimes?
    Last edited by CaveWeirdo; 08-01-2012 at 09:21 AM.
    Start weight: 238 lbs (March 2012)
    Current weight: 205 lbs (July 2012)
    Loss so far: 33 lbs!!!
    WOE: Primal + IF
    Movements: Hiking, sprinting.
    Goal: to see my abs some time in 2013!

  2. #2
    primal pete's Avatar
    primal pete is offline Senior Member
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    If it works for now - great, but try to avoid getting religiously fanatic about it and shunning carbs in the same fashion that CW shunned all fat in an umbrella like way in the 80s. People who are overweight (not sure if that's you) often have great success going VLC starting out simply because protein, fibrous LC vegetables, and saturated fat, all which constitutes the bulk of a typical VLC diet, also tend to be lower in calories while being highly satiable.

    However, the more you work out and the stronger you get, and the more leaned out you get - it will very likely be in your best interest to reincorporate carbs into your diet at some point, particularly if you are doing very intense sprint style workouts or lifts.

    I'm not an expert on the peer reviewed science exploring long term effects of ketosis - others here are and I'll let them chime in on that.

    I definitely remember feeling significantly better eating low carb when i started, though it might have simply been a result of eating healthier and not the lack of carbs, but I eventually felt deprived and sluggish - especially after tough workouts. Check out marks recent post on carb refeeds which may interest you:

    Can Carb Refeeds Boost Stalled Weight Loss? | Mark's Daily Apple

  3. #3
    emmie's Avatar
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    I am extremely carb sensitive, so I eat low carb (20g or fewer) most of the time. I saw an interview with Dr. Phinney (author of a new book on low carb), and he claims that he's been continually in ketosis for the past 6 years, exercises regularly, and is very healthy.

    Some time ago, I'd read that it's good to 'carb up' once every 6-8 weeks, and I've done that over the years. I don't know whether it helps, but it hasn't hurt me.

    Mark recently wrote about his, and his advice is to keep the fat low when eating 'carby' for a day, and that's how I plan to do it from now on.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by primal pete View Post
    If it works for now - great, but try to avoid getting religiously fanatic about it and shunning carbs in the same fashion that CW shunned all fat in an umbrella like way in the 80s. People who are overweight (not sure if that's you) often have great success going VLC starting out simply because protein, fibrous LC vegetables, and saturated fat, all which constitutes the bulk of a typical VLC diet, also tend to be lower in calories while being highly satiable.

    However, the more you work out and the stronger you get, and the more leaned out you get - it will very likely be in your best interest to reincorporate carbs into your diet at some point, particularly if you are doing very intense sprint style workouts or lifts.

    I'm not an expert on the peer reviewed science exploring long term effects of ketosis - others here are and I'll let them chime in on that.

    I definitely remember feeling significantly better eating low carb when i started, though it might have simply been a result of eating healthier and not the lack of carbs, but I eventually felt deprived and sluggish - especially after tough workouts. Check out marks recent post on carb refeeds which may interest you:

    Can Carb Refeeds Boost Stalled Weight Loss? | Mark's Daily Apple
    This is excellent advice!

  5. #5
    CaveWeirdo's Avatar
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    I'm currently 205lbs so quite a way to go - I'd estimate maybe a year of weight loss till I get to a maintenance weight. I'm not really a calorie expert so I've no idea how much calories I eat, and my macronutrient ratios vary based on my gut instinct of what I feel I should eat! I don't think I would get on well with any diet where I'd have to use precise measures or make complicated concoctions, Primal is as simple as you want to make it, so it works for me!

    I got into Primal as a way to address food intolerance symptoms so I am kind of forced to be quite strict with it, or else I feel really awful. Not that it's a chore of a diet of course! *munches bacon and eggs and some strawbs for afters*
    Start weight: 238 lbs (March 2012)
    Current weight: 205 lbs (July 2012)
    Loss so far: 33 lbs!!!
    WOE: Primal + IF
    Movements: Hiking, sprinting.
    Goal: to see my abs some time in 2013!

  6. #6
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    I thrive in ketosis too.
    The book "The art and Science of Low Carbohydrate Living" by Phinney and Volek is a great resource for dispelling a lot of the scare tactics and myths about long term ketosis.

    Ketosis has been studied extensively for the long term treatment of epilepsy (which I have, that how I first got interested in Primal).
    There is decades worth of data with thousand of subjects being in ketosis for extended periods with no ill effects. Johns Hopkins has some interesting info on their website if you are interested.

  7. #7
    abc123's Avatar
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    I am also very carb sensitive.. I'm wondering though, if you eliminate most starched & carbs, does this work against you in the long run & train your body to completely reject any carb when its re-introduced?

    Carbs (veggies, fruits, & starches) literally flood my body of any other nutrients I'm eating.. Feels as if it wrecks my stomach & I get "too thin" from eating a carby meal.. Similar to an inflammatory IBS issue.. Carbs (good carbs but primarily starches) bloat me severly, totally make me sleepy, burn my stomach, body temperature goes up, & make me really gassy.. I don't appear to be digesting most primal carbs correctly (Except for the banana).. Very odd, but I spend so much time thriving & feeling great on a high fat diet (talking 6 eggs a day, avocado, full fat yogurt, lots of olive oil, big ribeye @ night.. I mean, I'm working with 150g+ of fat a day) is this an issue.. I feel when stay in ketosis, inflammation stays down, energy level stays consistent, I stay lean (I'm really lean now) look great, & I don't get that drained "too thin" look..

    Question being, is staying ketosis training your body to further reject any carb or any amount of fiber & result in some insulin resistance?
    Last edited by abc123; 08-02-2012 at 08:03 AM.

  8. #8
    ciavyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by abc123 View Post
    I am also very carb sensitive.. I'm wondering though, if you eliminate most starched & carbs, does this work against you in the long run & train your body to completely reject any carb when its re-introduced?

    Carbs (veggies, fruits, & starches) literally flood my body of any other nutrients I'm eating.. Feels as if it wrecks my stomach & I get "too thin" from eating a carby meal.. Similar to an inflammatory IBS issue.. Carbs (good carbs but primarily starches) bloat me severly, totally make me sleepy, burn my stomach, body temperature goes up, & make me really gassy.. I don't appear to be digesting most primal carbs correctly (Except for the banana).. Very odd, but I spend so much time thriving & feeling great on a high fat diet (talking 6 eggs a day, avocado, full fat yogurt, lots of olive oil, big ribeye @ night.. I mean, I'm working with 150g+ of fat a day) is this an issue.. I feel when stay in ketosis, inflammation stays down, energy level stays consistent, I stay lean (I'm really lean now) look great, & I don't get that drained "too thin" look..

    Question being, is staying ketosis training your body to further reject any carb or any amount of fiber & result in some insulin resistance?
    I feel this way too. Due to my candida overgrowth diagnosis, I took on a naturally low-carb diet -- no sugars -- so any carbs I ingest are a result of vegetables or macadamia nuts. Any digestive issues have disappeared -- I have celiac's disease and some other food sensitivities -- and I feel pretty good on it. I don't *think* I've had any sensitivity to fiber, as if you eat veggies you are still getting a decent amount. Curious if anyone else has feedback on this.

  9. #9
    brecker's Avatar
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    Best blog on the planet regarding Ketosis and exercise visit The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D.

  10. #10
    Paleobird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ciavyn View Post
    I feel this way too. Due to my candida overgrowth diagnosis, I took on a naturally low-carb diet -- no sugars -- so any carbs I ingest are a result of vegetables or macadamia nuts. Any digestive issues have disappeared -- I have celiac's disease and some other food sensitivities -- and I feel pretty good on it. I don't *think* I've had any sensitivity to fiber, as if you eat veggies you are still getting a decent amount. Curious if anyone else has feedback on this.
    This : Hyperlipid: Search results for Who's Fat Is It ANyway?
    is the first in a set of three posts at the Hyperlipid site regarding "FIAF" or fasting induced adipose factor. It seems that our gut bacteria are really in control of things. When they are deprived of cellulose, they send out FIAF which starts the fat burning process. Too much to summarize here but well worth the read.

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