Meat and Dairy page 2

[Kingofturtles]

What it comes down to is that there is a copious amount of research being done that states grains in this day and age are absolutley terrible for your body. Not only are they toxic but, they have no GOOD qualities. They are empty calories. it's like if all you ever ate was water....with poison in it. If you really want to look into grains, read or google the book "wheat belly". It will explain everything.

Even then, there are so many studies done for and against both sides. Its hard to decide who is right. There are always flaws. For example, your study about people with high fat diets having heart attacks. It says high fat diet, it doesnt say high fat low carb diet. You can't do both. It also doesnt say what kind of fat.

You just have to do some critical thinking and come to your own conclusion. For me it was simple. Humans are meant to eat meat and vegtables and fruit. MAYBE they were able to eat grains, but todays grains are NOT yesturdays.

[KathyH]

Here's Denise Mingers post about it (seriously, all her stuff is gold). Here's her critique of Forks over Knives.

Denise Minger is NOT a scientist, NOT a statistician (but she likes numbers, she says) and not a nutritionist. She is an English major who likes to write. Strange that people here always point others to her site when asked for a scientific proof.

[anna5]

Hi everyone,

It says in the Bible we should adopt a vegan diet (learned it from my body his temple website, leader has very impressive degrees in biology, nutrition, etc), it has been proven that vegetarian's live longer, animal products make our bodies acidic and cause inflammation.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not undercover here pushing towards Veganism.

What?????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????? (response to the Bible nonsense.
What?????????????????????????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????????????????
(response to this temple, biology etc. nonsense)
What?????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????? (response to this "I'm not ... pushing toward Veganism" nonsense.
OK, after so much suffering I deserve some coffee and chocolate.

[anna5]

Denise Minger is NOT a scientist, NOT a statistician (but she likes numbers, she says) and not a nutritionist. She is an English major who likes to write. Strange that people here always point others to her site when asked for a scientific proof.

Nothing strange about it. She has a brilliant analytical mind, sufficient knowledge of biology and nutrition and incredible (for her age at least) ability to focus which allows her to look and find scientific proofs and present in a charming way.

[smilingjustalittlebit]

Bowel cancer
A pan-European study of nutrition and cancer found that people who ate more than two 80g portions of red meat a week were 30 per cent more likely to develop bowel cancer than those who ate less than one portion.
Scientists are still unsure why there is an increased risk, but there is a theory that the compounds haemoglobin and myoglobin, found in red meat, trigger a process called nitrosation in the gut which in turn leads to the formation of cancer-causing compounds.
Processed meats such as sausages may also be risky because the cooking process can create carcinogenic compounds called heterocyclic amines.

Alzheimer's disease
Research has shown that a Mediterranean diet - low in red meat but rich in plant foods and fish - can reduce the chances of developing Alzheimer's by up to two-thirds.
Again, there is no firm theory on this. Researchers University of California Los Angeles (UCLA) suggested last month that red meat could be linked to a build-up of iron in the brain, causing the opposite effect of antioxidants; in effect, the brain rusts. The researchers suggest it may also explain why more men develop Alzheimer's, as men eat more red meat than women.

Bones
Too much red meat can have an adverse effect on bone health. The digestive process of protein leaves acid residues in the body that need to be neutralised with alkalising minerals - and these may be taken from the bones, leading to a higher risk of osteoporosis and other conditions. While green, leafy vegetables are high in calcium, red meat has a low level and can cause excess acid to form, creating bone problems for the future.

Arthritis
Eating red meat every day could double your risk of developing rheumatoid arthritis. Scientists believe that collagen, found in red meat, may trigger an immune system response, which may also affect the joints.

And what else were these people eating besides meat?

[Gilleh]

In the bible/tora, the people of israel sacrificed cows, then ate it.
Even Noah, you know, the ark guy, ate em on his ark

[RichMahogany]

Nothing strange about it. She has a brilliant analytical mind, sufficient knowledge of biology and nutrition and incredible (for her age at least) ability to focus which allows her to look and find scientific proofs and present in a charming way.

Not to mention she's totally hot!

[Leida]

Spend a couple of month not eating meat and dairy. If you feel better, keep on. if you feel worse, add it back in. All men must die. Enjoy the best quality of life till then, and don't worry what % of people die of cancer in China in 1956-1975 as compared to Papua New Guiney in 1948-1989...

[statikcat]

Yes, you have to look at the study closely. Most do not look at many factors in the diet. How do we know the meat eaters were not having a side of Mac and Cheese? A high fat diet CAN also be a high carb diet.. it is called overeating and is the main problem most people have. A lot of this comes from eating processed foods which grains take a huge chunk of. Any heavy person is eating too much fat and carbs. Do the studies track the entire diet day by day to view? If not it can only go so far as "evidence".

It seems true meat does contribute towards acidic and possibly weaker bones. However, if you are eating a good amount of nuts, fruits, and vegetables, your body can maintain a perfect balance without sacrifice. Afterall, your blood pH is not supposed to be be all the way alkaline it is supposed to be slightly over the middle which means some acidic food is perfectly fine. However, add lots of processed grains to processed meat and you might have issues.

I agree that it's possible for people to be vegans while taking various supplements to supply the various elements that they would otherwise get from meat.

Can you expand on these elements? The only thing really missing from a vegan diet, which can be perfectly healthy, is sometimes B12. However keep in mind, hunter gatherers likely got B12 from their vegetables since B12 comes from the soil.

[anna5]

Can you expand on these elements? The only thing really missing from a vegan diet, which can be perfectly healthy, is sometimes B12. However keep in mind, hunter gatherers likely got B12 from their vegetables since B12 comes from the soil.

I am not a nutritional expert, but ... I doubt that B12 is the only thing missing from a vegan diet. There also countless amino acids, proteins and similar stuff. Women are told to add countless animal derived supplements to help their bones (lactoferrin for example). Trust me, there is a difference whether this or that stuff went through some stomach factory or not. Something tells me that hunter gatherers sent this vitamin through some animal stomach before ... using it. Quite a difference.