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Thread: Iodine: a discussion, and perhaps a civilized debate page 89

  1. #881
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    Thanks James,
    This is on a completly different tangent, I was reading some stuff today and then remembered this post,
    If you just insert the word Wheat or Grains instead of Iodine or Oleander, explains perfectly why pharmanutritionists keep encouraging us to eat more grains, we get sick, they have twice the income stream, once for the food then again for the treatment of chronic disease.
    As with any protein source people may or may not have problems with grains. I am one of those people who has consumed grains and soy all my life and have not had any health issues other than allergies until the age of 5. Some people have reactions to meats ad dairy as well but this does not make any of these foods inherently dangerous. Again, it all depends on the person. But people have to be careful not to talk themselves in to becoming sick. If people believe strongly enough that something will make them sick then it can. Just like some people still believe that you can catch a cold by going out in the cold without a hat or walking barefoot in the cold. I cannot believe how many times people have told me that because I do both. And I have to explain to them that you cannot catch a cold that way, which is why I don't get sick when I do these things. Some people can have true reactions to grains, but some people will also develop psychosomatic reactions to the grains because they so strongly believe they cause illness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    Oh by the way, on balance of evidence that I have read and seen, I'd put my money on James regarding Iodine megadosing, there is no real data to back high doses as a blanket treatment for everyone, which is the impression I am getting from the pro Iodine side. Most people do quite well without any supplementation of Iodine and there is no indication of any culture with mega intakes that has a significantly different health profile that can't be explained by other factors.
    Iodine may well have some therapeutic uses in the treatment of fibroids, but if I was looking at that I would seriously also investigate some of the alternatives that James has suggested, there may be some merit in them too.
    Yes, I for one do not supplement iodine and have been healthy. What I do is eat a highly varied diet, which some of the foods will provide iodine. And since the body does such a good job of holding on to iodine I get plenty from my diet. No need to take massive doses, which will just cause the body to excrete the excess and possibly cause adverse effects in the process.

  2. #882
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Oleander soup? Seriously? What quackery will they think of next? The curezone just sunk even lower in my estimation (if that was even possible).
    Its the same old BS. Some doctor supposedly cured thousands of patients using oleander soup, but there is nothing to back this claim. And all the studies in humans have shown oleander to be a complete failure for cancer. Some culture studies have shown oleander and other cardiac glycoside sources to be effective against some cancer cell lines in culture. But this once again shows that just because something works in a culture test this does not mean it will do the same thing in the body. For one thing the culture studies use concentrated cardiac glycosides in the cell lines. But cardiac glycosides from oleander are highly poisonous to the body in general. To get levels in the body high enough to have any significant effect on the cancer cells would likely kill the patient long before those levels are reached.

    In fact, the process of making the "oleander soup" removes most of the deadly cardiac glycosides from the final product, which is what culture studies have shown to be effective against some cancer cell lines. Therefore, if the active components are for the most part being removed from the final product how is this crap supposed to work in the first place? And again if these cardiac glycosides are left in place they will kill the patient.

    There are some immune stimulating polysaccharides in oleander but these types of polysaccharides are found in numerous non-toxic plants such as seaweeds, medicinal mushrooms, astragalus, Aloe vera, etc.

    If people read the studies on oleander and know how to read them properly they will find that oleander not only failed to cure cancer in all the studies, but the most recent study appears to have shortened the lives of the patients.

    Despite this every time someone asks about cancer and some other diseases such as hepatitis there are the bogus claims about "oleander soup" popping up including the bogus claim that the phase 1 studies showed oleander to highly effective for cancers.

    Funny thing is the promoter of the oleander says the studies failed because they were not conducted long enough. According to him it takes at least two months to even start seeing results. Yet right there in the testimonials he keeps presenting as so-called "evidence" are supposed cures by the doctor in less than two weeks. Just goes to show why unverifiable testimonials are worthless. When I asked him about the discrepancy as to either he was lying or the doctor's testimonials were fabricated or both I never got a response explaining the discrepancy. And still to this day he is still making the same exact claims and still posting the same so-called testimonials despite the contradictions.

  3. #883
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    Years ago when researching alternative cancer cures, I came across this guy selling this stuff called MMS or Miracle, Mineral, Supplement. First of all, anything with the term "miracle" in the title set's off my bs-ometer. He was using the same sales pitch as with the oleander, that it killed cancer cells in a petri dish. Upon further investigation, it turns out that what he is selling is pool disinfectant. All he does is take the powdered stuff which is dirt cheap wholesale, put it in solution and add an eye dropper, then charge exorbitant prices.

    People like that are one of the lowest forms of human pond scum in my estimation.

  4. #884
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleobird View Post
    Years ago when researching alternative cancer cures, I came across this guy selling this stuff called MMS or Miracle, Mineral, Supplement. First of all, anything with the term "miracle" in the title set's off my bs-ometer. He was using the same sales pitch as with the oleander, that it killed cancer cells in a petri dish. Upon further investigation, it turns out that what he is selling is pool disinfectant. All he does is take the powdered stuff which is dirt cheap wholesale, put it in solution and add an eye dropper, then charge exorbitant prices.

    People like that are one of the lowest forms of human pond scum in my estimation.
    They are still selling MMS on Curezone. The guy who makes it has his own forum there. We have gone head to head as well primarily over the chemistry that he claims is behind it. He tries to claim that the product is chlorine dioxide, which is not true. Chlorine dioxide is a gas. Here is a link to one of my posts that contains other links to posts I did addressing his bogus claims:

    Re: mms at The Truth in Medicine (MessageID: 1457000)

  5. #885
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    I see discussion on this thread seems to have ended several weeks ago. Since then, I have been doing quite a bit of reading over on Dr. Kruse's blog. It is now a little more clear to me that iodine is essential to our brain's health, our thyroid's health, and other organs. Basically, our whole body needs. I am now in agreement with Dr. Kruse and others on this thread, the best way to aquire it is by dietary means. And truly, the only means that has always been available is through seafood. Supplementation seems to be just that supplementation, since my land based diet is also iodine deficient. I am a true believer on the need for iodine as I am really amazed in some of the changes in my body that I have witnessed since supplementing iodine.

    On Grizz, he is known over there and is tolerated as an enthusiastic proponent. He is not harshly criticized so much as he is gently corrected. I believe the tone taken in MDA to shout him down is wrong, on both this thread and the old thread. I believe that if you disagree with someone, it is more important for you to state your case more strongly and not succomb to the name calling and other insanity I saw here. When I was an empty vessel, he jump started my knowledge base. As that job of being a teacher, he did a fine job. He started me on a quest for more knowledge and provided some places for me to search. Yes, I supplemented rather high, but titrated back down and I thank JamesS for guiding me on that part of my magical tour. I think I learned something from everbody here. So I thank you all.

    With that said, I am unsubscribing from this thread and bid you all a fond good day.
    Learning the intricacies of healthy eating and nourishing my body the right way.
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  6. #886
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    Oh, and I found a parting gift for grizz: Troll Spray | Capitalism is Freedom
    Learning the intricacies of healthy eating and nourishing my body the right way.
    I am not bald, that is a Vitamin D collector. Time to Grok and Roll!
    Eased into a primal diet starting at Christmas 2011. Goal weight - 205 started: 240 pounds waist 40, now 227 pounds and waist 38 Summer 2012 - weight =215 and waist is actually still 39"
    ljbprrfmof = LJ = Little John = John

  7. #887
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    I stopped supplementing iodine around the end of May (or maybe June). I just took the urine loading test at the end of September. 100% excretion of iodine. 2.54 mg bromine excreted. .86 mg fluoride excreted.

    The test result page says that if you excreted more than 90%, and are not taking supplementation, it may be caused by 1. A symporter defect in which iodine is absorbed but not taken into the cells properly. 2. An iodine organification problem where iodine gets into the cell but does not attch to the lipid complex for activation. 3. Bromide may be interfering with the body's utilization of iodine.

    I don't think it's number 3 above since my Bromide is low enough. Since I got myself up to 50mg at the end of my supplementation I've been eating seaweed now and then. Maybe my body is just sufficient?

    I'm going to ask my naturopath but, if anyone on here knows, how common are the first two scenarios listed for this?

  8. #888
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaye View Post
    I stopped supplementing iodine around the end of May (or maybe June). I just took the urine loading test at the end of September. 100% excretion of iodine. 2.54 mg bromine excreted. .86 mg fluoride excreted.

    The test result page says that if you excreted more than 90%, and are not taking supplementation, it may be caused by 1. A symporter defect in which iodine is absorbed but not taken into the cells properly. 2. An iodine organification problem where iodine gets into the cell but does not attch to the lipid complex for activation. 3. Bromide may be interfering with the body's utilization of iodine.

    I don't think it's number 3 above since my Bromide is low enough. Since I got myself up to 50mg at the end of my supplementation I've been eating seaweed now and then. Maybe my body is just sufficient?

    I'm going to ask my naturopath but, if anyone on here knows, how common are the first two scenarios listed for this?
    I agree that number 3 is unlikely. Bromine exposure is not as common as some people are trying to make it out to be. And even with the common things that displace is such as salt and fluoride the half life of bromine is so short in the body that it is not going to build up except in very rare cases. See:

    The "bromine detox" myth

    Most likely the problem is your body is not utilizing the iodine properly, which is fairly common. A person can simply be low in cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP), which allows the uptake of iodine by cells. If a person is taking large doses of iodine though cAMP levels are inhibited as a means to protect cells from the toxic levels of iodine. If you were doing the extremely high levels of iodine, 50mg+ daily, that some people have recommended this would have forced cAMP down to protect the body from the iodine toxicity.

  9. #889
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesS View Post
    I agree that number 3 is unlikely. Bromine exposure is not as common as some people are trying to make it out to be. And even with the common things that displace is such as salt and fluoride the half life of bromine is so short in the body that it is not going to build up except in very rare cases. See:

    The "bromine detox" myth

    Most likely the problem is your body is not utilizing the iodine properly, which is fairly common. A person can simply be low in cyclic adenosine monophosphate (cAMP), which allows the uptake of iodine by cells. If a person is taking large doses of iodine though cAMP levels are inhibited as a means to protect cells from the toxic levels of iodine. If you were doing the extremely high levels of iodine, 50mg+ daily, that some people have recommended this would have forced cAMP down to protect the body from the iodine toxicity.
    Thanks for the response James. I only got up to the 50mg dose and stayed there for maybe a week and basically stopped supplementing with iodoral after that. I switched to eating seaweed. As I said in my op, I stopped iodoral months ago.

    Do you know if there are further tests I can ask my Naturopath for? Maybe a tissue test to see if I am sufficient?

    Do you know if CAMP downregulation is something that is long-term or will it respond to my now lower dietary amounts of iodine?

    Thanks!

  10. #890
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaye View Post
    Thanks for the response James. I only got up to the 50mg dose and stayed there for maybe a week and basically stopped supplementing with iodoral after that. I switched to eating seaweed. As I said in my op, I stopped iodoral months ago.

    Do you know if there are further tests I can ask my Naturopath for? Maybe a tissue test to see if I am sufficient?

    Do you know if CAMP downregulation is something that is long-term or will it respond to my now lower dietary amounts of iodine?

    Thanks!
    I don't know of any other tests to see if you are sufficient, but likely you are with excessive doses you were taking and with your current supplementation with seaweeds. Iodine is only required in what can be considered trace amounts in the body, around 150 micrograms (not milligrams) per day.

    Normally cAMP downregulation will reverse over time after cessation of the excessive iodine intake. Keep in mind though that low cAMP can also occur even without excessive doses of iodine. If someone starts taking massive amounts of iodine when they had low cAMP to begin with not only will the iodine have a minimal effect on supporting the thyroid, the excess iodine will just further decrease cAMP. This is why I am always trying to get across to people that iodine will not treat all causes of hypothyroidism and can actually be detrimental in some cases.

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