Iodine: a discussion, and perhaps a civilized debate page 67

[JamesS]

OK, James. Just to make you happy, here is my opinion about soy. I researched the subject thoroughly post cancer, BTW. What I found is there are studies by the boatload to support either side of the argument. There are poorly done studies on both sides and very well done scientifically sound studies on both sides. (No I'm not going to post links. I did this a few years ago and didn't write it all down. Plus as Grizz shows us, just because you can put up a long list of links, doesn't mean the info is valid.)

You really have a talent of dancing around things to avoid actually having to back your claims. People do that when they know they are wrong. Just like Grizz has demanded I answer all of his questions but keeps ignoring my questions for him because he also knows he has nothing substantial to back his claims with. In his case though he just ignores me as where in your case we excuses on top of excuses on top of excuses!!!

So what do I as a cancer survivor do with all of this conflicting evidence? I choose to err on the side of caution and cut soy out of my diet. A primal diet does not include legumes anyway and has much better for you and better tasting sources of protein. Bottom line, I'm not a vegan so I don't need soy in my diet, I don't particularly like it to begin with, and there is no consensus about the potential dangers (or benefits) of it.

It has nothing to do with being a legume. The people who claim soy is bad for cancer use the excuse that the phytoestrogens in cancer promote cancer. If that is the case then how do they explain that we do not see widespread cancer despite EVERY plant humans consume contain phytoestrogens?

And then there is the fact that phytoestrogens are 200-400 times weaker than human estrogens. And even weaker than the true estrogens found in meats like beef. So what do you eat to error on the side of caution since you apparently don't trust phytoestrogens, which are found in all plants, and the hormones in animal flesh are considerably stronger and thus more dangerous than the phytoestrogens in plants?

You have a habit of putting words into people's mouths and then attacking statements they didn't make.

Right, just like your claim that you never attacked me, which I also disproved. Clearly you do not want to debate because you know that you will get trounced again in that debate. I don't blame you. If I were as ill informed as you I would not want to debate either. The difference between us is that I don't come up with bogus excuses to try to get around it.

[JamesS]

You're so cute when you pout.

I see you still cannot control yourself with the insults. No wonder so many people on these boards hate you.

[JamesS]

um~ok thanks :|

What else do you want to know? The write up gives details on things that can be done to balance the hormones. And I mentioned the motherwort for menopausal hot flashes and adaptogens to support adrenal hormone production. All that covers pretty much every hormonal issue that can come up with menopause.

I could sit and make a long list of other herbs that can help such as red clover blossom, black cohosh and wild yam. Or foods such as soy, broccoli, seaweeds, etc. But it is a lot of extra typing and also happens to be redundant to the previous information already given. So what else specifically do you want to know?

[joe2.0]

Grizz, stop with the "been banned on 2 messageboards" nonsense. While I think James is a self important blowhard and has potential to be a lunatic just like you are, his being banned from internet messageboards aren't really a concern. How you have managed to not be banned here shows how invalid of a measurement that is. Stop acting like messageboard bans = criminal record or employment history.

[JamesS]

so you have contacted the cdc and asked them what damage to expect? what did they say?

Have you? If I do you would not believe anything I told you anyway. So don't rely on more hearsay like you have been doing all along and get your answers direct from the source.

[JamesS]

I have a better question, why aren't you and all the others here FIGHTING against James for calling small amounts of iodine POISONOUS?

For a very good reason. I never claimed small amounts of iodine are poisonous. I said excessive amounts of iodine are poisonous.

No wonder you could not comprehend the answer to the question I already gave but you keep asking.

[Grizz]

Grizz, stop with the "been banned on 2 messageboards" nonsense. While I think James is a self important blowhard and has potential to be a lunatic just like you are, his being banned from internet messageboards aren't really a concern. How you have managed to not be banned here shows how invalid of a measurement that is. Stop acting like messageboard bans = criminal record or employment history.

It is simple to end this controversy - Tell James to answer my very simple question. He has wasted numerous messages already by refusing to answer. As he just admitted, he was also trying to destroy iodine at IndiaDevine

Grizz

[KerryK]

I was being very respectful and non-confrontational in my message to Grizz. I don't appreciate being patronized like I am an idiot thank you. I said that I see Grizz is passionate and wants the best for people. But it is not his or your jobs to decide for us who we can listen to or get advice from. IF something happens in regards to whomever we choose to take advice from I promise I will not personally blame or seek damages from either source. I just think the pettiness of the fighting from BOTH sides is juvenile and takes away from the knowledge that could be passed on. I really don't have a dog in this fight either so I don't know why I even bothered. *sigh* But as a by-stander let me say it is HARD to watch this kind of inter-action and see a lovely site like this succumb to board wars between opposing members. It is very sad thats all

+1, too

[JamesS]

"So using your ridiculous reasoning just because "
"Do you see how ridiculous your reasoning is?"
"even had the slightest clue of what you were talking about then"

There you go again being totally abusive to anyone who disagrees with you.

I treat people the way they treat me.

Now, once again Grizz this thread is not about me. Try to focus for once and read what the topic of this thread is about then try to stay on topic. Thanks.

[Paleobird]

You haven't? What do you call this one from your journal:
Post #470:
Do I have to define what personal attacks are to you?

I have the right to vent on my journal if I want to. You did not have the right to come there and start bashing me. Which you did. In multiple PAGES of ranting text. That was out of line. A journal is a private space where my friends and I are having a conversation. You barging in with your diatribes was Just. Not. Cool.

Is anyone else having deja vu?

All over again.

Unverifiable claims of successful treatments are hardly evidence.

Another great example of why your post has no credibility. Notice how they left out the fact that the Japanese also consume very large amounts of bromine and sodium chloride with the seafood they consume. Note that Grizz was kind enough earlier to post how much higher in bromine the ocean is compared to iodine. Thus the Japanese intake of bromide alone would well exceed their intake of iodine. And as we have all heard over and over bromide displaces iodine. And so does the sodium and the chloride of the salt. So we have all that bromide and salt protecting the Japanese from iodine poisoning.

Furthermore, if you bothered to do some real research you would have found that the decreased rate of breast cancer in Japan has been linked to the high intake of phytoestrogens, not iodine, in the traditional Japanese diet. Most of the phytoestrogens come from their intake of soy products and seaweeds. Seaweeds also contain immune stimulating polysaccharides that help prevent cancer in large part by helping the body fight off cancer viruses.

In addition, you are contradicting yourself in a way. You are claiming a high rate of goiter and breast cancer due to a deficiency of iodine. Do you know what the primary food is in Iceland? Ocean fish, full of iodine!!! When I was over there the cost of fish was around the equivalent of $2.00 a pound. So it was the least expensive meat over there. Ground beef was the equivalent of $8.00 a pound and steak $15.00 a pound. One of the things I heard over and over from the people over there was the high cost of living so they primarily bought fish as their main diet. Lamb is the other big meat over there, which was a little cheaper than ground beef. But the sheep feed on grass, as do the very limited cattle, which pick up iodine from the ocean spray since the only pasture is along the coastal edges. The interior of Iceland is considered pretty much uninhabitable consisting mainly of glaciers, black sand deserts, rivers, and moss covered hills and flat lands. So the only grazing areas are along the coastal edges where the grass and other vegetation pick up iodine from the ocean spray.

Again, this is why you should rely more on real research as evidence rather that bogus propaganda sites that just happen to fit your needs.

James, you really should be nicer to me since I am in agreement with you more times than not. Like this. Spot on.

You really have a talent of dancing around things to avoid actually having to back your claims. People do that when they know they are wrong. Just like Grizz has demanded I answer all of his questions but keeps ignoring my questions for him because he also knows he has nothing substantial to back his claims with. In his case though he just ignores me as where in your case we excuses on top of excuses on top of excuses!!!

It has nothing to do with being a legume. The people who claim soy is bad for cancer use the excuse that the phytoestrogens in cancer promote cancer. If that is the case then how do they explain that we do not see widespread cancer despite EVERY plant humans consume contain phytoestrogens?

And then there is the fact that phytoestrogens are 200-400 times weaker than human estrogens. And even weaker than the true estrogens found in meats like beef. So what do you eat to error on the side of caution since you apparently don't trust phytoestrogens, which are found in all plants, and the hormones in animal flesh are considerably stronger and thus more dangerous than the phytoestrogens in plants?

Right, just like your claim that you never attacked me, which I also disproved. Clearly you do not want to debate because you know that you will get trounced again in that debate. I don't blame you. If I were as ill informed as you I would not want to debate either. The difference between us is that I don't come up with bogus excuses to try to get around it.

I don't have to prove anything to anyone including you. I make my choices for me. I'm not interested in a debate about soy because, like I said, there is ample evidence on both sides. There is no consensus on this. But of course your POV and evidence are the only ones that matter, right?

I see you still cannot control yourself with the insults. No wonder so many people on these boards hate you.

Physician, heal thyself.

Now, once again Grizz this thread is not about me. Try to focus for once and read what the topic of this thread is about then try to stay on topic. Thanks.

Try taking your own advice. Both of you are acting like children.