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Thread: Iodine: a discussion, and perhaps a civilized debate page 46

  1. #451
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz
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    Are you here to promote iodine or are you a paid shill of the drug companies to destroy iodine? If you are trying to destroy iodine as a supplement, then I suggest you start your own new thread, "Why Iodine Should NOT be taken."
    Right, because those are the only two possibilities, promoting iodine or being a paid shill of the drug companies to destroy iodine.

  2. #452
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesS
    If I ever find one that does not advocate poisonous amounts of iodine then tells people to do salt flushes, which reduces the toxic levels of iodine, then tells people to take even higher levels of iodine poisoning them again I will let you know.
    So you lied. You do not know of a better iodine discussion group than the Curezone. My favorite member at the Curezone is Wombat.

    Also "poisonous amounts of iodine" are your opinion that are not shared by the following doctors:
    Guy Abraham, MD, David Brownstein, MD, and Jorge Flechas, MD, Dr. Buist, Dr. Hoenstine, Dr. Sircus,
    Dr. Derry and more have treated more than 4,000 patients with iodine supplementation.
    Who do you think you are calling all of these doctors WRONG ??

    You are NOT a doctor and your opinions are simply more iodophobia added to the trash pile.
    Gabriel Cousens, MD says that you are DEAD WRONG about "Poisonous Levels" of iodine.
    http://www.gabrielcousens.com/LinkCl...language=en-US

    Dr. Sircus also says you are DEAD WRONG about poisonous levels of iodine:
    Dr. Mark Sircus in his book on iodine - Iodine: Bringing back the Universal Medicine. Dr. Sircus, a world expert on iodine, feels that people may safely take 10–200 milligrams daily without clinically adverse effects. Even the Food and Nutritional Board at the Institute of Medicine has set the tolerable upper limit of 1,100 micrograms of iodine daily (3 times higher than Dr. Mercola’s recommendation). Other researchers have used between 3,000-6,000 micrograms/day to prevent goiter (14 times higher than Dr. Mercola’s recommendation).
    DR. COUSENS' BLOG - Iodine
    So you are the only one that is right? And all of these doctors are WRONG? No wonder the Curezone tossed you out on your ear. Sorry to say that you are not an expert on iodine. I would rather listen to all of those experienced doctors than your never ending negativism.

    You can twist the words around any way you want but we have proven that iodine cures fibrocystic breasts and other iodine deficiency disease. My next door neighbor would throw you out of her house for bad mouthing iodine because she cured her FBD pain in less than 3 days and cured her lumps & bumps in about 1 month, and all of this on less than 5mg of Lugols Iodine daily with required supplements. Yes, this is the same friend whose doctor told her to get a double mastectomy for her breast pain. Our many testimonials seem to say that Mastectomy is the "Standard Treatment" prescribed by allopathic doctors for painful FBD. Prove this to yourself by reading through all of the testimonials I have collected here in Iodine References.
    Our member Zophie had 4 doctors prescribe mastectomies for her painful FBD. I would like to believe that most homeopathy doctors would prescribe iodine.

    So now you finally admit you don't know of a better Iodine Discussion Group than the CureZone.

    I will continue posting iodine testimonials as they come in.

    PS) You are mistaken once again. I did not join the Curezone until about March of this year. One of our terrific members suggested that I join. I have found the Curezone to be an EXCELLENT source of research on iodine, and everyone is very positive and upbeat.
    Iodine Supplementation Support Forum by VWT Team, Page 267, Vulcanel, Wombat & Trapper/kcmo:

    BTW) Thank you for your excellent article on ozone. It was very well done. If I know of anyone suffering with cancer, where should I suggest he go for ozone treatment? Mexico? Any specialized doctors list in the USA that I can refer to? It is clear that the FDA & the Cancer Industry will not allow its use inside the USA or the doctor will lose his license.

    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 08-16-2012 at 03:06 PM.

  3. #453
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    James, sorry to say but you are wrong again. Paysan is suffering from detox caused by taking too much iodine too soon. 4 drops of iodine to start kicks out too many toxins that the liver & kidneys cannot keep up with.
    You can keep fooling yourself all day long, but those are symptoms of iodine poisoning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    Salt Flush to clear the kidneys
    SALT THE BROMIDE AWAY !
    More like salt the excess toxic iodine away. It has been shown that both the sodium and the chloride in salt remove iodine from the body. That is why these salt flushes help. They get rid of the excess iodine when people consume toxic levels of iodine.

    Even you mentioned the "pecking order" of the halogens. What is more reactive than iodine and thus readily displaces it? That's right, chloride as in sodium chloride ("table salt").

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    @James,
    Here is the rebuttal for your misconception of iodism where Iodism is a myth generated by Big Pharma to promote expensive drugs & surgeries
    From your rebuttal link:

    "The element iodine was used in daily amounts 2 to 3 orders of magnitude greater than the RDA by physicians for over 150 years. "

    Wow, three times the RDA, which is the absolute daily minimum needed for health. That would come out to 450mcg, which is less than half a gram. Still way lower than the 50mg Brownstein recommends.

    "As far back as 100 years ago, U.S. physicians used Lugol solution extensively in their practice for many medical conditions"

    100 years ago mercury and cocaine were also considered cure alls. I guess this is evidence to you that everyone should be taking massive amounts of mercury and cocaine to stay healthy.

    "For detoxificaton of bromide, the halides iodide and chloride are the most effective."

    Backs up my point earlier that since bromide is rapidly excreted from the body and the chloride from salt speeds this up even more that it would be so rare to see any true cases of brominism or the fabled "bromine detox". Why? Because the average person consumes way more chloride in a day than bromide. Many of us are also exposed daily to fluoride sources, which is even more reactive and thus displaces bromine even more effectively. With the normal rapid excretion of bromide and with the assistance of all the fluoride and chloride most people are exposed to bromine would not have any chance at all to build up in most people.

    Along the same lines, if "bromine detox" was for real then why don't people experience bromine detox from the large amounts of fluoride and chloride most people are exposed to on a daily basis. Seems like the only time this happens is when they take poisonous levels of iodine and not surprising they develop symptoms characteristic of iodine poisoning, but not bromine poisoning.

    "Although the largest reservoir of iodine is in the oceans, because of their large volume, the concentration of iodate/iodine/iodide in the oceans is only 0.05 PPM, very dilute indeed, compared to bromide at 70 PPM"

    [QUOTE=Grizz;930211]So once again, which iodine discussion group is better than the Curezone? Put up or shut up. We expect an answer.

    Hmmm... This would mean that if someone did salt flushes with sea salt then they would be inducing bromism as they flush even larger amounts of iodine out of their system.

    "Among the coastal areas, the inhabitants of Hokkaido ingest the largest amount of seaweed.25 Hokkaido produces 90% of the seaweed consumed in Japan,25 further processed by drying and flattening for sales in food stores. Statistics compiled by the Japanese Ministry of Health is based on the dry form of seaweed.26 Seaweed contains predominantly the inorganic form of the element iodine, mainly iodide.27 Seaweed also concentrates other halides such as bromide, which possess goitrogenic, carcinogenic and narcoleptic properties.3 Seawater is very poor in iodide and relatively rich in bromide with 0.05 PPM iodide and 70 PPM bromide. There is 1400 times more bromide than iodide in seawater.

    Mainland Japanese consume large amounts of iodine from seaweed and they are one of the healthiest nations.
    "

    Do they not see their contradictions? So they are saying that by consuming so much seaweed the Japanese are ingesting considerably more bromide, because the seawater is so rich, than iodine yet they are among the healthiest nations in the world.

    "The average daily intake of iodine by mainland Japanese in 1963 was 13.8 mg, based on information supplied by the Japanese Ministry of Health, which used only dry weight in their calculations, confirmed by a phone interview of one of us (GEA) on June 21, 2005, with officials of this organization (See Table II)."

    And even more bromide in the seaweed as they pointed out in their earlier comment:"Contamination of seaweed with bromide is the most likely explanation, since bromide is a goitrogen".

    "Studies performed with a sustained release form of iodine, amiodarone, give further support for the validity of the iodine/iodide loading test. Amiodarone is a benzofuranic derivative containing 75 mg of iodine per 200 mg per tablet. It is widely used for the long-term treatment of cardiac arrhythmias."

    I am helping someone recover right now from iodine poisoning from amiodarone. Unfortunately, the half life of the drug is so long that it is estimated that it is going to take about 9 months to get the toxic levels of iodine back down.

    "In 3 patients who eventually died following long-term treatment with amiodarone, the levels of inorganic iodine (not amiodarone) present in various organs and tissues were measured. The total body non-amiodarone iodine content was estimated at approximately 2 gm with the greatest amount found in fat tissues (700 mg) and striated muscle (650 mg). Iodine was present in every tissue examined. The highest concentrations of non-amiodarone iodine were found in descending order: thyroid gland, liver, lung, fat tissues, adrenal glands and the heart. We previously reported a double peak of serum inorganic iodide levels, 8 hours apart, following ingestion of a solid dosage form of Lugol.37 This pattern is indicative of an enterohepatic circulation of inorganic iodine, which could explain the high iodine content of the liver.

    When a tablet form of Lugol is ingested at a daily amount of 50 mg elemental iodine, whole body sufficiency is achieved in approximately 3 months and the estimated amount of iodine retained in the body is approximately 1.5 gm.8 This is the same amount of iodine retained in patients on amiodarone following 7 weeks at 300 mg/day containing 112.5 mg iodine."


    So they ha three people die from iodine poisoning due to amiodarone due to the fact that iodine accumulates in the body. So the 50mg of iodine daily Brownstein recommends will just take a little longer to reach the saturation point achieved by amiodarone therapy that killed three people in the study. You are making a great case for proving iodine poisoning there Grizz.

    "The most common adverse effects of iodine/iodide supplementation observed at the Center for Holistic Medicine has been metallic taste in the mouth and acne. Based on the experience of three clinicians at that Center, with a combined patient population of some 4,000, the prevalence of these side effects is about 1%. This is probably due to a detoxification reaction."

    "Probably"? So they are guessing.

    "The release of bromide may be one cause of this detoxification reaction. Clinical experience has continually shown that iodine/iodide supplementation results in a large urinary excretion of bromide.3,18 When bromide levels begin to decline, the above mentioned adverse effects begin to decline as well. Chloride increases renal clearance of bromide15 and the use of NaCl or ammonium chloride shortens the time required for bromide detoxification with orthoiodosupplementation."

    So here we have yet another contradiction. They mention the acne, which you and Trapper keep falsely blaming on a "bromine detox". Since the rebuttal you linked clearly keeps mentioning that the iodine/iodide and sodium chloride used in salt flushes both enhance URINARY excretion of bromide. Since it is not coming out through the skin then how is it causing acne? On the other hand it has been proven that iodine can inflame the follicles causing acne. Iodine poisoning can also cause a metallic taste in the mouth, both symptoms they mention.

    So thanks Grizz for showing evidence of the dangers of excess iodine and how the sellers of iodine have to rely on old, outdated information full of contradictions to make their case.

    Of course this rebuttal was nothing more than a sales pitch:

    "Financial Disclosure
    Guy E. Abraham, M.D. is the owner of the company that developed and distributes Iodoral®, a tablet form of Lugol solution, to healthcare professionals.
    "

    And worse yet the author referenced himself as "evidence" how many times?

    If you ever come up with any real evidence Grizz feel free to post it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    So once again, which iodine discussion group is better than the Curezone? Put up or shut up. We expect an answer.
    Already answered in my previous post. Now let's see if you can put up or shut up by answering my questions in my last post. Especially why you knowingly and deliberately lied about me. I realize you are frustrated that you have no real evidence to present to back up your claims, but still that is no excuse to deliberately lie about someone.

  4. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    James, people on this forum are eating Primal or Paleo, so few or no processed foods, so not high salt like the rest of the population. In fact, I have to heavily salt my food to get enough.
    And we are not talking solely about people on these forums. We are talking about the risk of iodism from taking excess amounts of iodine.

    And you may be surprised at how many foods contain sodium and or chloride. For instance I know there has been a lot of talk about beef on these boards. What about all the salt in the animals tissues?

  5. #455
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesS View Post
    And we are not talking solely about people on these forums. We are talking about the risk of iodism from taking excess amounts of iodine.

    And you may be surprised at how many foods contain sodium and or chloride. For instance I know there has been a lot of talk about beef on these boards. What about all the salt in the animals tissues?
    Quote Originally Posted by grizz
    James, sorry to say but you are wrong again. Paysan is suffering from detox caused by taking too much iodine too soon. 4 drops of iodine to start kicks out too many toxins that the liver & kidneys cannot keep up with.
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesS
    You can keep fooling yourself all day long, but those are symptoms of iodine poisoning.
    So you are insisting that only 4 drops of lugols is "Iodism & Iodine Poisoning?"

    What is your definition of "Excessive Iodine?" 1 drop of Lugols?
    What is your definition of Iodine Poisoning? 2 Drops of Lugols?

    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 08-16-2012 at 04:37 PM.

  6. #456
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    So you lied. You do not know of a better iodine discussion group than the Curezone.
    Looks like Grizz has been smoking iodine again. How is my statement a lie Grizz? On post #433 I clearly state:

    "We will have to agree to disagree on the claim that the Curezone iodine forum being the very best iodine forum. That would be true if they were the only iodine forum on the internet, but otherwise that forum is so full of dangerous, hyped up misinformation that I would never recommend anyone go there for advice."

    So how is this a lie? For that matter there has been more accurate information posted about iodine and its dangers here than there has even been posted anywhere on Curezone.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    My favorite member at the Curezone is Wombat.
    Just because she is your favorite this does not make her any kind of expert. So again, who are the experts on the iodine board at Curezone? Note that experts also happens to be plural. So stop tip toeing around the questions and answer them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    Also "poisonous amounts of iodine" are your opinion that are not shared by the following doctors:
    Guy Abraham, MD, David Brownstein, MD, and Jorge Flechas, MD, Dr. Buist, Dr. Hoenstine, Dr. Sircus,
    Dr. Derry and more have treated more than 4,000 patients with iodine supplementation.
    Who do you think you are calling all of these doctors WRONG ??
    Do you have any proof they are right? Oh, that's right, you have no idea what to believe, which is why you are all over the place.

    First you claim that the Curezone iodine board has experts that you cannot even name. But all the people over their I have seen are recommending the 100-150mg+ a day of iodine. So you were implying that you agree with them. But when I called you on your statement all of a sudden the story changed to:

    Post #411 “Dr. Brownstein does not recommend 100-150mg of iodine. He recommends only 50mg iodine daily for his maintenance level. However, under special cases involving disease and under a doctors supervision he does recommend higher levels.”

    Post #411 “Trapper at the curezone is not a doctor, so his recommendation of 100-150mg iodine is just another conflicting opinion, and we have plenty of conflicting opinions.”

    Post #411 “So bottom line, until we can find a better doctor recommended protocol, I continue to support Dr. Brownstein.”



    But earlier you wrote:

    Post #402 “There are 3 doctors that I can relate to.
    * Dr. Kruse who recommends large amounts of seafoods (equivalent to Japanese consumption of 12mg daily)

    * Dr. Davis who recommends 1/2mg of seaweed tablets
    Thyroid Tune-up Checklist | Wheat Belly Blog
    An Iodine Primer | Wheat Belly Blog

    * Dr. Brownstein, who I am now following. Dr. Brownstein is also followed by the Yahoo Iodine Group, 6,000+ members, the BreastCancerChoices Group, 640 members, and the Curezone Iodine Group for the last 5 years. “


    So you relate to two doctors that recommend a fraction of what Brownstein recommends, who recommends a fraction of what Trapper, Wombat and the others recommend on the Curezone iodine board that you consider the best iodine forum on the internet even though you state later in Post# 416 “I consider the curezone to be the very best iodine forum available. Just beware of what is said. There is BS on that forum just as with any other forum, which is the major reason why I insist on following a Doctor's protocol when taking iodine. There is no legitimate doctor who would EVER suggest that anyone actually start iodine at 150mg. We must take everything we read with a grain of salt.

    Please Grizz, you are making my head spin!!!


    You are NOT a doctor and your opinions are simply more iodophobia added to the trash pile.
    Gabriel Cousens, MD says that you are DEAD WRONG about "Poisonous Levels" of iodine.
    http://www.gabrielcousens.com/LinkCl...language=en-US

    OK Grizz, how do you explain this contradiction:

    "There is also an increase in TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone) with increased iodine, which may last up to six months. This, again, is not a sign of hypothyroidism. This is related to the fact that the whole body is deficient in iodine and TSH stimulates the production of sodium--‐iodide--‐symporter (NIS). Without adequate NIS, iodine could not enter the cells and be utilized. NIS is a carrier system into all the cells, and when this system becomes deficient then the whole body becomes deficient."

    It is well known that TSH does in fact rise with hypothyroidism. Why? Because when the thyroid is underactive the TSH (Thyroid STIMULATING Hormone) tries to kick the thyroid in to gear. If the thyroid was already working at optimal levels then there would be no reason for the TSH to rise since this would only put the thyroid in to overdrive.

    What is funny though is how you again missed the contradiction in your link. So this so-called doctor is saying that an increase in iodine increases TSH because there is actually a deficiency of iodine in the body despite the increase, leading to a rise in of NIS to increase uptake of the iodine that is not there since the body is deficient. Where do you dig this crap up from Grizz?!!!

    Actually I addressed all the errors in this letter by this so-called doctor a while back:

    Iodine


    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    Dr. Sircus also says you are DEAD WRONG about poisonous levels of iodine:
    So far the people you have been linking quotes to clearly have never studied how the thyroid actually works. So if you wish to follow their advice that is your choice. I can care less if their claims contradict mine because I can back my claims unlike them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    So you are the only one that is right? And all of these doctors are WRONG? No wonder the Curezone tossed you out on your ear. Sorry to say that you are not an expert on iodine. I would rather listen to all of those experienced doctors than your never ending negativism.
    Again, that is your choice.

    And why was I banned from Curezone despite having one of the top 3 active forums there and climbing to 25th position out of the top 300 health forums in just over 3 years? Because I was constantly exposing the rampant quackery there including the recommendation of poisonous levels of iodine, then telling people they had bromism, then telling them to do salt flushes that push out the toxic iodine, then telling them to take even larger doses of iodine. As well as other quackery like "oleander soup", which even the studies by the manufacturer proved was ineffective for cancer. Problem is that the people pushing these forms of quackery were Curezone advertisers, so I was banned to make sure I did not expose any more of the quackery there on Curezone.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    PS) You are mistaken once again. I did not join the Curezone until about March of this year.
    Ok, you finally got something right. I was confusing you with grzbear.



    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    BTW) Thank you for your excellent article on ozone. It was very well done.
    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    If I know of anyone suffering with cancer, where should I suggest he go for ozone treatment? Mexico? Any specialized doctors list in the USA that I can refer to? It is clear that the FDA & the Cancer Industry will not allow its use inside the USA or the doctor will lose his license.
    Dr. Shallenberger in Northern Nevada is one of the top doctors in the U.S. for ozone. There are others that practice ozone therapy, but not quite as much in the open.

    I generally tell people to simply buy their own cold corona machine and do home treatments. It is easy to do and not that expensive, less than $1,000. But they will have the machine and oxygen tanks for a long time so they can use it for future therapy, they have it for family members and for other uses such as ozonating foods to destroy herbicides and pesticides on the food.

  7. #457
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    So you are insisting that only 4 drops of lugols is "Iodism & Iodine Poisoning?"

    What is your definition of "Excessive Iodine?" 1 drop of Lugols?
    What is your definition of Iodine Poisoning? 2 Drops of Lugols?

    Grizz
    Trying to be misleading as usual. First of all I have consistently referred to the 100-150mg+ being recommended by the non-experts over at Curezone.

    But lets look at your quote again:

    " Originally Posted by grizz
    James, sorry to say but you are wrong again. Paysan is suffering from detox caused by taking too much iodine too soon. 4 drops of iodine to start kicks out too many toxins that the liver & kidneys cannot keep up with."

    Hmm..... "To start", then of course increase the amount. Please, if you are going to be deliberately misleading don't make it so easy to expose. You take all the fun out of it!

  8. #458
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesS View Post
    From your rebuttal link:

    "The element iodine was used in daily amounts 2 to 3 orders of magnitude greater than the RDA by physicians for over 150 years. "

    Wow, three times the RDA, which is the absolute daily minimum needed for health. That would come out to 450mcg, which is less than half a gram. Still way lower than the 50mg Brownstein recommends.
    Three orders of magnitude would be 1000 times the RDA rather than three times, would it not? Which would be 150mg, or three times the 50mg Brownstein recommends.

  9. #459
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    this thread got real dumb real fast

    so let's make it what it really is,

    WHO'S PENIS IS BIGGER?! GRIZZ'S OR JAMES'?!

    WHO WILL BE KING OF THIS HILL??

    STEP RIGHT UP, FOLKS, STEP RIGHT UP HEEEEEYAH AND WITNESS A CLASHING OF WILLS YOU'LL NEVER SEE THE LIKES OF AGAIN, I TELL YA! SO STEP RIGHT UP, STEP THIS WAY! BUY A TICKET FROM THE PRETTY LADY OVER THERE!
    beautiful
    yeah you are

    I mean there's so many ants in my eyes! And there are so many TVs, microwaves, radios... I think, I can't, I'm not 100% sure what we have here in stock.. I don't know because I can't see anything! Our prices, I hope, aren't too low!

  10. #460
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodorchid View Post
    this thread got real dumb real fast

    so let's make it what it really is,

    WHO'S PENIS IS BIGGER?! GRIZZ'S OR JAMES'?!

    WHO WILL BE KING OF THIS HILL??

    STEP RIGHT UP, FOLKS, STEP RIGHT UP HEEEEEYAH AND WITNESS A CLASHING OF WILLS YOU'LL NEVER SEE THE LIKES OF AGAIN, I TELL YA! SO STEP RIGHT UP, STEP THIS WAY! BUY A TICKET FROM THE PRETTY LADY OVER THERE!
    I'll take one ticket please. Fire up the coffee pot and pass the SeaSnax. This is entertaining.

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