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Thread: Iodine: a discussion, and perhaps a civilized debate page 45

  1. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post

    Bromide Poisoning and Thyroid Problems

    Elevated bromide levels have been implicated in every thyroid disease, from simple hypothyroidism to auto-immune diseases to thyroid cancer. Bromide levels are found to be 50 times higher in thethyroid tissue of thyroid cancer patients.
    Where is the research backing this? Anyone can make up claims and post them on the internet making it appear that a study was conducted. If it was though then it should be published for review. So where are the studies?


    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    Chlorine, fluoride, bromide and iodine belong to a group of elements we call halogens. They have a pecking order and iodine is subject to displacement by the other three halogens in this family. Thus if chlorine, fluoride or bromide levels are too high, they usurp iodine receptors. We experience familiar symptoms of iodine deficiencies even when we top up on kelp, seafood or Lugol's iodine. The bromide bully interferes with our iodine reserves. Chlorine and fluoride affect our thyroid glands and also displace iodine. We filter our water and use fluoride free oral hygiene products, yet we unwittingly saturate ourselves with bromide.
    Misleading on many levels. First of all we are not exposed to as much bromine as some people are trying to scare others in to believing. Secondly, bromine is rapidly excreted from the body. And finally, the average person consumes large amounts of salt throughout the day from various sources, which would increase excretion of bromide anyway making a build up of bromine almost impossible.

    You also mention the "pecking order" of halogens, which I discussed here and provides even more evidence against the so-called "bromine detox":

    The rest of your post is also just regurgitating a of false and misleading information that I don't have time to go over again and again.

    One of the things you bring up in your post once again are the salt flushes, which also displace iodine. So why do you advocate taking iodine because so many people are supposedly deficient, then advocate doing salt flushes that are going to flush that iodine right out of the system with the sodium and that "evil" halogen chloride?

  2. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by KathyH View Post
    OK, now I am confused I am eating most of the things recommended on this side. There are claims that liver is SOOOO GOOOD for you. So is it good or bad or simply we don't know and therefore we should just avoid it? Some people put liver in their smoothies so they can eat as much of it as possible.

    What cholesterol binders am I lacking?
    You may find this interesting:

    The Straight Dope: Is liver good for you? Isn't it full of pesticides?

    The liver also has a high affinity for hormone disrupting and carcinogenic dioxins:

    http://www.who.int/ipcs/publications...-sum-final.pdf

    "The toxicokinetic determinants of dioxin and related chemicals depend on three major properties: lipophilicity, metabolism, and binding to CYP1A2 in the liver. Lipophilicity increases with more chlorination and controls absorption and tissue partitioning. Metabolism is the rate-limiting step for elimination. The persistent compounds are slowly metabolized and eliminated, and therefore bioaccumulate. Induction of CYP1A2, which is partially under the control of the aryl hydrocarbon receptor (AhR), leads to hepatic sequestration of TCDD. The structure/activity relationships for induction are different from that for binding to CYP1A2. Binding to this inducible hepatic protein results in non-linear dose dependent tissue distribution: as the dose increases, the relative concentration in extra-hepatic tissues decreases while that in liver increases."

    You might find this interesting as well:

    ARS | Publication request: Comparison of Soxhlet and Accelerated Solvent Extractions in the Analysis of Dioxins and Furans from Liver Samples

    These are just a few of the toxic compounds that have been found in the liver.

    Then there is the issue of the amount of iron, which can be great for someone who is iron deficient anemic, but detrimental for someone with hemochromatosis. Even men in general and menopausal women need to be careful about their iron intake since unless there is an internal bleed or they donate blood regularly there is no efficient way to get rid of excess iron and prevent dangerous iron overload.

    As far as cholesterol binders the primary two binders are plant sterols and lecithin.

  3. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    His point was that eating liver is not the same thing as eating the toxins that liver filters out.

    Changing the subject slightly James, why are you so high on Ozone treatment? I thought that a big part of what we were shooting for in our diet is anti-oxidants, yet from what I understand Ozone acts essentially by shedding the third Oxygen atom, which then oxidises something nearby. Why is deliberately creating an oxidised zone good in our body when generally odxidation is bad for us?
    There is a major myth that pro-oxidants are all bad and all antioxidants are good. This is simply not true. We cannot survive without free radicals and to many antioxidants actually suppress the immune system.

    What constitutes oxidation is more involved than the reaction of oxygen with a substance. But staying within that line the only way we cold stop long term oxidation processes in the body would be to stop breathing. Even the process of energy production in the body is heavily reliant on oxidative phosphorylation.

    I like ozone for numerous reasons including it kills cancer cells on contact, kills all sorts of pathogens, can destroy many toxins including various carcinogens, it boosts the immune system and increases the body's own antioxidant defense mechanisms.........

  4. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paysan
    It was an outbreak of hard-headed pimplelike spots that made me back down. Within a couple weeks, my diverticula started inflaming, but it was another 2 weeks before the pain sent me to doctor. Now I'm back on 4 drops iodine daily, but will eventually switch to sea veggies and safe seafish, as I still prefer food to supplements. (But will supplement as long as I live, thanks to modern living.)
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesS
    Yep, symptoms of iodism.
    James, sorry to say but you are wrong again. Paysan is suffering from detox caused by taking too much iodine too soon. 4 drops of iodine to start kicks out too many toxins that the liver & kidneys cannot keep up with.

    Paysan,
    Go back to the starting dosage and SLOOOWLY increase your iodine dosage per this schedule. We have never had any problems with this schedule:
    - - - Mix 1 drop 2% Lugols into bottles of water, put the caps back on.
    - - - Week 1 drink 1 oz (~30ml) daily (about 380mcg iodone)
    - - - Week 2 drink 2 oz (~60ml) daily (about 775mcg iodine)
    - - - Week 3 drink 4 oz (~120ml) daily ( about 1.5mg iodine)
    - - - Week 4 drink 6 oz (~180ml) daily ( about 2.3mg iodine)
    - - - Week 5 drink 8 oz (~220ml) daily ( about 3.1 mg iodine or about 1 drop per day),
    - - - Week 6 drink 2 drops per day in a glass of water
    - - - Week 7 drink 3 drops per day in a glass of water
    - - - Week 8 drink 4 drops per day (about 12.5mg = to 1 iodoral)
    * Next, Titrate up with iodoral 12.5mg iodine tablets available at Amazon.Com
    - - - add 1/2 tablet each month to eventually reach 25mg daily-refer to Dr. Brownstein’s Book
    - - - 25-50mg Daily is the dosage target recommended by Dr. Brownstein to overcome toxins
    - - - 6 to 50mg Daily is his latest recommendation for maintence (07/27/12)
    * If any detox symptoms appear do the salt flush and pulse dose. (all listed below)


    Salt Flush to clear the kidneys
    SALT THE BROMIDE AWAY !

    * In addition to the daily teaspoon of natural sea salt taken with vitamins every day, if severe detox symptoms occur, we should also do the Salt Loading Protocol “Salt Flush.”
    tsp of Natural Sea Salt is dissolved in 1/2 cup warm water, followed immediately with 12-16 oz pure water. Repeat every 30-45 minutes until copious urination begins.
    * Repeat each day for up to 3 days if required to clear detox symptoms
    * or go back to a lower dose that was problem free and pulse dose.
    * Why the salt flush ? ?
    Pulse Dosing to clear the kidneys

    Pulse dosing of iodine has often helped our participants with detox symptoms: taking a 48 hour break from iodine supplementation as needed seems to enhance the kidneys' ability to excrete bromide and other toxins.

    @James,
    Here is the rebuttal for your misconception of iodism where Iodism is a myth generated by Big Pharma to promote expensive drugs & surgeries when simple iodine supplements do better and at far less cost:
    Rebuttal: Gaby editorial on iodine (October 2005)

    So once again, which iodine discussion group is better than the Curezone? Put up or shut up. We expect an answer.

    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 08-16-2012 at 12:31 PM.

  5. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Radialhead View Post
    Air filters, oil filters, fuel filters, coffee filters, respirator filters - all store what they filter, & all the sort of things most people would think of when you mention filters.
    What about dialysis filters and reverse osmosis filters as examples of filters that do not store what they filter.

    But I think people here are smart enough to realize that we were discussing the liver as a filter and not paper or plastic filters from air filters, fuel filters, etc.

    Maybe this will help:

    The Liver as Filter - Hepatitis C

    Quote Originally Posted by Radialhead View Post
    And neither is the liver a storage organ. If you eat it, you won't also be eating all the toxins it's processed (a better word than filtered).
    The problem with that is that the liver can store fat soluble toxins. I posted some studies just a few minutes ago showing some examples.

    And we also have to keep in mind that everything in the liver has not already been processed. When the animal is killed all those unprocessed toxins in the liver are trapped in the liver.

  6. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sceptic View Post
    The whole point of cancer treatments is to kill the cancerous cells. Creating an oxidised zone in the middle of a tumour is good because it should kill (at least part of) the tumour.
    Not quite the way it works. Tumors are actually well oxygenated as they grow and increasing oxygen levels to tumors will not kill the tumor. Ozone kills cancer cells through the formation of peroxides that the cancer cells cannot break down. Same principle Natural killer cells use to kill cancer cells when they can be detected.

  7. #447
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    Sceptic,

    I found this excellent article on Ozone Therapy:
    How It Works

    Cancer cells die when exposed to oxygen (cancer cells are anaerobic).
    This site is misinformed. Cancer cells are not anaerobic. In fact they are highly dependent on oxidative phosphorylation for survival, just like healthy cells. But they are not quite as reliant on oxidative phosphorylation as healthy cells.

    Here is an article I wrote that explains how ozone really works for cancer:

    Alt/Trad Medical Review

  8. #448
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    James, people on this forum are eating Primal or Paleo, so few or no processed foods, so not high salt like the rest of the population. In fact, I have to heavily salt my food to get enough.

  9. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    We agree to disagree. Now tell us which iodine forum is the best in your opinion.
    If I ever find one that does not advocate poisonous amounts of iodine then tells people to do salt flushes, which reduces the toxic levels of iodine, then tells people to take even higher levels of iodine poisoning them again I will let you know.

    By the way, still wondering who the "experts" are on that forum. So who are they specifically?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    Now tell us why so many women are CURED completely by iodine supplements with minimal detox symptoms. My file of testimonials is growing by the week and you can't dismiss them all offhand.
    Apparently you did not read the parts where I said several times that iodine can work since it is an estrogen antagonist, but there are safer ways to do it.

    And who is to say they has minimal "detox" symptoms? I have read so many posts on that Curezone board of people reporting symptoms of iodine poisoning because they followed the dangerous advice given. There are several reports also over on my MedCapsules site. But the so-called "experts" over there on Curezone try to pass off the symptoms as "bromine detox" even though many of the symptoms are not symptoms of bromine poisoning but are symptoms of iodine poisoning. So they tell them to do a salt flush claiming it reduces the bromide, when in fact it reduces the poisonous levels of iodine. Then they tell them to load up on even higher doses of iodine and the symptoms will subside shortly. Yes, the symptoms will subside. Why? Because as a protective mechanism from the poisonous levels of iodine the thyroid starts to shut down to compensate. So many of those women never really realize how much damage they really did to their body's in the process.

    If you want to read up on iodine issues try reading these:

    MedCapsules Forum - Iodine Safety/Issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    Are you here to promote iodine or are you a paid shill of the drug companies to destroy iodine? If you are trying to destroy iodine as a supplement, then I suggest you start your own new thread, "Why Iodine Should NOT be taken."
    Why don't we not start with the pharmaceutical shill crap. Every time the trolls over on Curezone could not present any evidence to back their claims or could not refute my evidence this was their response. We don't need that stupid game here. Besides, if you read through all the posts in this thread you will find someone that would clearly disagree with you and plenty of posts exposing the fraud of pharmaceuticals. So if you decide to continue playing the "pharmaceutical shill" card you are only going to discredit yourself even further and show how really desperate you are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    I am not going to debate the Pros & Cons of iodine with you. As a group, we have proven over & over again that iodine is a valuable supplement that has PROVEN to cure Fibrocystic Breasts within just a few months & to cure the breast pain in just days. You are losing credibility by denying these facts.
    The only person losing credibility is you. You are arguing against my agreements with you. Again, I have said a number of times that iodine can work since it is an estrogen antagonist. But death is also a good cure for pain. This does not make it the best choice, just like iodine is not the best choice for symptoms of elevated estrogen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    You are fighting against iodine and I support the Dr. Brownstein Iodine Protocol. YOU are NOT a doctor, and YOU were thrown out of the Curezone Iodine Group, and now I see why you were thrown out. You are just a paid shill for Big Pharma.
    Again you continue to show your desperation and how willing you are to lie to discredit someone. I don't work for "big pharma" in any possible stretch of the imagination. Of course you already know that since we have been posting back and forth for years on Curezone. So why did you just now blatantly and deliberately lie about me Grizz? I'm sure I am not the only person here that would like to hear the answer since it calls everything else you post in to question.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    But we are still friends and you do have a lot to contribute. I will continue posting Iodine testimonials, and you will continue fighting against iodine, so we can agree to disagree.

    So once again, which iodine discussion group is better than the Curezone? Put up or shut up. We expect an answer.

    Grizz
    Been answered, now answer my questions above.

  10. #450
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    This post ^^^ needs a 'like' button.

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