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Thread: Iodine: a discussion, and perhaps a civilized debate page 42

  1. #411
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesS View Post
    At least that is nowhere near the poisonous levels of 100-150mg or more of iodine being promoted on the Curezone iodine board.

    We also have to keep in mind that seafoods, including seaweeds are also high in iodine antagonists so the full amount of iodine is not going to be utilized.



    Seaweeds are the best choice for iodine in my opinion. It not only supplies the small amounts of iodine the body needs, but also contains the accessory nutrients needed by the thyroid and its supporting glands. And since fibrocystic breast disease keeps coming up, seaweeds are also a great source of estrogen antagonizing phytoestrogens.

    There is the gist of the problem. What is "sufficient iodine"? There are people such as myself that do not supplement iodine and are perfectly healthy. Then there are those who supplement small amounts of iodine and say they feel better. And then we have those following the advice of taking 100-150mg or more of iodine daily that are reporting symptoms of iodine poisoning that are incorrectly being told they are detoxing bromine. Clearly there is a line between safe and toxic, but the dangers of toxicity are being ignored by too many. Iodine is essential to the body, but it is not required in large amounts. People need to do some research on this and use some common sense.
    Dr. Brownstein does not recommend 100-150mg of iodine. He recommends only 50mg iodine daily for his maintenance level. However, under special cases involving disease and under a doctors supervision he does recommend higher levels.

    IMO, even his recommendation of 50mg is dependent on the amount of toxins taken in each day. So, for example we drink well water with no fluoride, we don't eat breads with bromide, we don't use fluoride toothpaste and we don't have any carpeting, etc. So our daily load of halogen chemicals is much smaller than most folks. Therefore, in our case, we are going to take far less than Dr. Bownstein's recommendation of 50mg, and take 12.5mg daily. The wife is already at 12.5 mg daily and I will be there by the end of this month.

    So bottom line, the amount of iodine we need to take is dependent on our unique situation. Unfortunately, I have not seen this fact documented anywhere. So Dr. Brownstein simply tries to cover the worst case situation that people could be in with his 50mg recommendation... those who drink fluoridated water, eat brominated bread, use fluoride toothpaste, etc and have a high load of daily halogen poisons need higher levels of iodine for maintenance.

    Also, if you know of a better doctor recommended protocol than Dr. Brownstein, do let me know.

    Dr. Brownstein does not recommend seaweed because it does not contain enough iodine to detox, and Americans are just not going to eat seaweed regardless of it being healthy or not. Most grocery stores also do not carry seaweed, and most people are not going to make special trips to a health food store. Some also question seaweed & sea fish because it may be contaminated with toxins. For a good example, I brought some seaweed snacks on our recent vacation bus trip out West and invited people to try it. In EVERY CASE the person trying out the seaweed snack said YUCK, it's AWFUL and tossed it out. Getting America to eat seaweed? That is just not going to happen.

    Trapper at the curezone is not a doctor, so his recommendation of 100-150mg iodine is just another conflicting opinion, and we have plenty of conflicting opinions. He was trying to get me to promote his SSKI and I told him to find a doctors recommendation for his SSKI protocol. That ended the discussion without another word.

    So bottom line, until we can find a better doctor recommended protocol, I continue to support Dr. Brownstein. This document is the best for detailing Dr. Brownstein, written by Dr. Buist:
    http://home.comcast.net/~jocy1/junk/...h%20Iodine.pdf
    For the latest version of this document, download your copy here:
    Iodine | Stepping Stones Living, LLC

    The "Best" iodine protocol is for each member to choose for himself.

    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 08-15-2012 at 03:04 AM.

  2. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    Dr. Brownstein does not recommend 100-150mg of iodine. He recommends only 50mg iodine daily for his maintenance level. However, under special cases involving disease and under a doctors supervision he does recommend higher levels.
    I was not referring to Brownstein. I have not looked in to his claims. I was referring to the people over at Curezone that you referred to as experts, even though they have no clue what they are talking about. Especially Trapper who tells people 100-150mg daily and "the more the better" without any consideration to possible problems. Especially for those with Hashimoto's in which high iodine is especially bad. Trapper not only recommends these excessive amounts of iodine he also advocates people take even more iodine when they report developing symptoms of iodine poisoning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    IMO, even his recommendation of 50mg is dependent on the amount of toxins taken in each day. So, for example we drink well water with no fluoride, we don't eat breads with bromide, we don't use fluoride toothpaste and we don't have any carpeting, etc. So our daily load of halogen chemicals is much smaller than most folks. Therefore, in our case, we are going to take far less than Dr. Bownstein's recommendation of 50mg, and take 12.5mg daily. The wife is already at 12.5 mg daily and I will be there by the end of this month.
    In my opinion Brownstein is still recommending way over what is a safe dose for iodine. Again, especially for people with Hashimoto's.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    So bottom line, the amount of iodine we need to take is dependent on our unique situation. Unfortunately, I have not seen this fact documented anywhere. So Dr. Brownstein simply tries to cover the worst case situation that people could be in with his 50mg recommendation... those who drink fluoridated water, eat brominated bread, use fluoride toothpaste, etc and have a high load of daily halogen poisons need higher levels of iodine for maintenance.
    The whole bromine issue is way over hyped. Bromine for baking has been banned in many countries and some sates. And the presence of bromine in some things such as fire retardant does not mean a source of exposure. The amount of fluoride from toothpaste is extremely minimal unless you are eating tubes of toothpaste.

    And the scaremongers are overlooking several other important points. First of all not all halogens are dangerous. Small amounts of natural fluoride are beneficial to the bones and teeth. And chloride is essential to our survival and function.

    And speaking of chloride have you ever considered why we don't see widespread bromism when the iodine peddlers make it sound like nearly everyone is poisoned with toxic amounts of bromine? So why is that when very few people supplement with high doses of iodine yet true cases of bromism are rare?

    Part of this can be easily explained by the fact that most of the public is not being exposed to high levels of bromine as the iodine peddlers are claiming to sell more iodine. Another factor is if we consider the fact that salt (sodium chloride) removes bromine and we consider how much salt the average person consumes in a day we find that even if one was exposed to high levels of bromine that it would still be next to impossible to develop bromism. These could be the reasons that actual reports of bromism are rare. Just because people claim that others taking high doses of iodine are suffering "bromine detox" when they show symptoms of iodism does not make it true. Especially when the symptoms being reported are not consistent with bromine poisoning but rather iodine poisoning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    Trapper at the curezone is not a doctor, so his recommendation of 100-150mg iodine cannot be trusted. He is just another conflicting opinion, and we have plenty of conflicting opinions.
    You just got done referring to Trapper in post #402 as an "expert".

    And yes, I am aware Trapper is not a doctor, nor has any medical background as applies to the other people running that forum. This is why they are giving such dangerous advice and immediately blocking any dissenting opinions that discuss iodine poisoning from the amounts of iodine they are recommending.

  3. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by KathyH View Post
    I am eating 5-6 eggs for breakfast fried in coconut oil or butter instead of toast with jam almost every day. When I add bacon I fry eggs in the bacon fat. I don't always eat bacon for breakfast because of nitrates. Sometimes I put the fried eggs on top of spinach or other greens.
    Lunches now days are either salad with meat on top (steak strips or grilled chicken) or fried fish in butter (no batter).
    Dinner, fried cow's liver with sweet potatoes or steak or chicken with LOTS of veggies fried in butter.
    I am avoiding grains and legumes as much as possible, but sometimes when I am out I might have some beans.
    I have also been drinking bullet proof coffee sometimes (coffee with a teaspoon of butter).
    That's roughly what I eat. Before that I was not eating as much fat but after reading here for several months I learned that we need lots of fat so I increased that as well as coconut oil being so beneficial to us.
    I forgot to add that coffee also raises cholesterol. This has long been a pet peeve of mine or a long time. Before going in for blood tests they tell you that you need to fast, but you are allowed to have coffee before the test. Coffee though alters many of the readings such as raising blood sugar, cholesterol and inflammatory markers among others. It can also alter non-blood tests such as raising blood pressure readings, which can lead to the prescribing of unneeded anti-hypertension medications for the false high reading of the blood pressure and other unnecessary drugs for the other false high readings.

    Therefore, if you want more accurate cholesterol readings I recommend avoiding all stimulants (caffeine, nicotine, etc.) before the blood draw. Also relax before the test since stress, such as getting stuck with a needle, also raises cholesterol levels temporarily.

  4. #414
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesS View Post
    Before going in for blood tests they tell you that you need to fast, but you are allowed to have coffee before the test.
    Not on this side of the pond - it's strictly sips of water only before a fasting blood test.

  5. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesS View Post
    Your diet does contain quite a bit of cholesterol and very little in the way of binders. But the main thing I see I would avoid is the liver. Liver is 6 times higher in cholesterol than beef, but the bigger issue with liver is what else is in it. When I was a little kid we had a really neat family doctor. He was more old school and did not believe in medications unless absolutely unnecessary. I remember something really interesting he mentioned about liver. He said he would not touch liver because it is the filter for the body's toxins. And eating liver means ingesting those toxins. Made a lot of sense to me. The more we put in to the body that the liver has to process the more stress we put on the liver.
    Liver's fine. Well when I say fine, I mean disgusting, but safe, assuming you're getting it from a reputable source. Filters store all the stuff they're filtering out - the liver doesn't.

  6. #416
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    JamesS,

    I never said Trapper was an expert. What I said was there are iodine experts at the Curezone.
    Iodine Supplementation Support Forum by VWT Team, Page 267, Vulcanel, Wombat & Trapper/kcmo:

    I consider the curezone to be the very best iodine forum available. Just beware of what is said. There is BS on that forum just as with any other forum, which is the major reason why I insist on following a Doctor's protocol when taking iodine. There is no legitimate doctor who would EVER suggest that anyone actually start iodine at 150mg. We must take everything we read with a grain of salt.

    So you like the seafoods approach to iodine, and that is good for you and your followers. You and Dr. Kruse will get along just fine.

    And I like the Dr. Brownstein approach which is time tested and proven by 6,000+ members at the Yahoo Iodine Group led by Dr. Buist.
    I suggest that you look into Dr. Browstein & his research. The closer you look, the better he gets. Let us know what you think. You can find all of his research here:
    http://tinyurl.com/iodine-references
    Also by the BreastCancerChoices Group here:
    Iodine Therapy Guidelines

    Welcome to our iodine group. You have valuable information to share, and we appreciate your words of wisdom,

    PS) I would like to suggest that you write magazine articles & books about iodine. There are MILLIONS of women suffering from severe iodine deficiency and the resulting Fibrocystic Breasts, PCOS, Uterus Problems, hypothyroid & depression. Doctors and the drug companies are not going to do it, so it is up to us. You are welcome to use my research to write your articles:
    http://tinyurl.com/iodine-references
    We need to get the word out to millions of women asap. They are unlikely to find this obscure message thread on their own.

    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 08-15-2012 at 09:17 AM.

  7. #417
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    * Iodine Deficiency can result in Fibromyalgia
    * Iodine Cures some cases of Fibromyalgia


    What about Fibromyalgia & Iodine?
    ====================================
    My friend has been taking 50mg of iodine with companion supplements for a couple months and her fibromyalgia is better. She can move more freely, has less pain, less mental fog and feels rested with 8 hrs. of sleep instead of needing 12-13 to function.
    - - -

    Fibromyalgia + Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
    ====================================
    Concerning fibromyalgia and cfs (conditions of mine), iodine has given me my life back and I've only been supplementing for a month. I'm not 100% cured by any means but I don't remember a time in my life that I was capable of doing so much and not crashing. Everything from my IBS to severe brain fog and fatigue to heavy, achy limbs that burned because they hurt so bad has been addressed by iodine.
    I would say that even if there was no proof that it helped directly with MS, it would improve ur quality of life anyway. Don't wait too long!
    Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®
    - - -
    Cause of Fibromyalgia
    "In fibromyalgia patients, what I have found in my practice is that there are two primary causes: the first is in one hundred percent of the patients I’ve seen with fibromyalgia—when I test them, they are toxic with heavy metal poisoning. The second cause is that many, many people in our society are deficient in the element iodine, and when any tissue in the body becomes deficient in iodine, it will become fibrous, painful, and can possibly develop cysts and nodules, which are often found in fibromyalgia patients.

    "Fibromyalgia Toxin Considerations and Iodine Deficiencies
    When I evaluate the patient and they have the classic pain pattern with pain at the trigger points of fibromyalgia, I basically consider all cases of fibromyalgia to involve heavy metal toxicities, and/or iodine deficiencies, until I prove otherwise through the test results. So far, in every fibromyalgia patient I’ve seen, I have yet to prove otherwise, meaning they all have heavy metal toxicities, and usually iodine deficiencies. So that’s where I start—I begin a treatment protocol aimed at assisting the body to eliminate heavy metals from the body and replacing iodine at a sufficient dose based on the test results.
    Successfully Treat Fibromyalgia with Naturopathic Medicine > Fibromyalgia Symptoms, Cause, Diagnosis, Treatment, Diet, Supplements

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...tml#post821946

    Grizz

  8. #418
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    Grizz, in Dr. Brownstein's blog from July 27th he says, "My clinical research has found that, for the vast majority of patients, 6-50mg of a combination of iodine and iodide (Lugol’s iodine, Iodoral, or Iodizyme HP) is the appropriate dose to help the body maintain sufficient iodine levels. This dose is also necessary to aid the body in excreting excrete excess bromine."

    So he's now recommending as low as 6mg for maintenance.

  9. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by Owl View Post
    Grizz, in Dr. Brownstein's blog from July 27th he says, "My clinical research has found that, for the vast majority of patients, 6-50mg of a combination of iodine and iodide (Lugol’s iodine, Iodoral, or Iodizyme HP) is the appropriate dose to help the body maintain sufficient iodine levels. This dose is also necessary to aid the body in excreting excrete excess bromine."

    So he's now recommending as low as 6mg for maintenance.
    Owl,
    Thank you so much for that tip. It is about time he modified his position.
    Quote Originally Posted by DrBrownstein
    FRIDAY, JULY 27, 2012 - Toxic Bromine In Our Food Supply
    [He explains Bromide Poisoning in detail]

    What can you do? As I explain in my book, it is essential to maintain optimal iodine levels. Our continued exposure to bromine requires the daily supplementation with iodine. Over the last 30 years, due to our increasing exposure to bromine, our iodine requirements have increased. A health care practitioner knowledgeable about iodine and bromine can test your levels and guide you on proper iodine supplementation. My experience has shown that the RDA for iodine (150ug/day) is woefully inadequate to compensate for the excess bromine toxicity we are facing. My clinical research has found that, for the vast majority of patients, 6-50mg of a combination of iodine and iodide (Lugol’s iodine, Iodoral, or Iodizyme HP) is the appropriate dose to help the body maintain sufficient iodine levels. This dose is also necessary to aid the body in excreting excess bromine.
    Dr. David Brownstein - Holistic Family Medicine
    Too bad he did not go into more detail about determining when to take 6mg or 50mg. I will just have to quote his article and ask him to better define his dosage.

    The wife & I feel very comfortable at the 12mg level with required supplements. Next year I will verify this 12mg dosage as being correct for us with the Iodine Loading test.

    I have just updated the information in Iodine References

    ALSO this is the first time he has recommended something other than Lugols or Iodoral.
    Iodizyme HP is restricted by Biotics Research but is available to the public at Amazon.Com
    Which is the better deal at Amazon?
    Iodoral = 180 caplets for $35.15
    Iodizyme = 120 caplets for $33.48

    Iodoral wins !

    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 08-15-2012 at 09:13 AM.

  10. #420
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    * Iodine Cures Chronic Fatigue Syndrome
    This just came in:

    Late winter of this year I was feeling bad.... Tired a lot, lethargic. Often I had to leave work and just go home and rest.

    I just got tired of being tired. I first gave up all caffine and just drank water. Massive headache ensued. Felt a little better.

    Purchased a water filter that (hopefully) filter bad stuff including flouride. While reading about flouride I stumbled onto this Iodine forum.

    At first I was pretty skeptical, one element being to help you. I purchased the book by Dr. Browstein, "Iodine: Why you need it, Why you can't live without it". His work sounded plausible, and also I began reading this forum from page 1.

    I decided to try iodine, slowly notching up the dosage. The effect was immediate. In a few days, I felt fantastic. It was like a veil being lifted for me. Others unfortunately did not have the same positive effects at first as me.

    Per Brownstein and others here, I drink some salt water with iodine. I don't have the "cloudy urine" anymore, for a while is was pretty heavy.

    I had symptoms of slight headaches, but even with this I felt so much better. I began sleeping well. Also I had achey teeth for a while, but now that is greatly reduced (perhaps from having metal filling in my teeth removed 10 years ago, some residue).

    So now I etched up to 50 mgs. The headaches are almost completely gone, and I really feel fantastic. Even as a child I never felt as well as I do now.

    I am more health conscious, juicing organic veggies 3x a day. Drinking clean water. Eating better.

    Positives: clearer skin, clearer sinus's, better sleep, more energy, clearer thinking. I had slight arthritis in my hands which is better now. I think my eyesight is clearer.

    It almost sounds like a "con", but really I feel that much better.

    After I feel my body had cleared from obvious toxins, I will also begin liver cleansing. I feel this will help my health in the long run. I don't want to tax my liver/kidneys too much so I will probably take some time to make sure they are doing OK. I think in the future first I will do a kidney cleanse.

    I greatly appreciate the sharing here because it has helped my body and life in a positive way.

    Steve in New Mexico ("NM_steve")
    Re: Positive Report- 30 days iodine at Iodine Supplementation Support by VWT Team (MessageID: 1974074)

    Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue
    ======================================
    http://theiodineproject.webs.com/fms...pcosadrena.htm

    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 08-15-2012 at 11:01 AM.

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